Messalla

The true causes are: dissipation of our young men, inattention of parents, ignorance of those who pretend to instruct, and total neglect of ancient discipline.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

I've said this repeatedly in response to that tweet, but I will say it again: it is complete delusion to think that the Anglo-Saxon South, as an independent nation, would be the one to have sided with German nationalists. It is far more likely that the German ethnic bloc would have been far stronger in the Union states if the Southern ones separated successfully. I don't really care that he is so ignorant on this issue, but that he speaks as though he is. But such is X I suppose.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

His position on this betrays his ignorance. It is highly unlikely that the Anglophile Southern states would have supported German Nationalist governments. If anything, the German ethnic bloc would have been far stronger in a divided North America, which would have meant more German sympathy in the Union. It is revelatory of his moral framework though, as he, like a Leftist, throws Nazi out as some sort of religious trump card.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

I suspect that the predominately Anglo-Saxon Southern state would have sided with the British Empire. It would, if anything, have been the Northern and Midwestern states, with their large populations of Germans, that would have been sympathetic to the German cause. The German American Bund held their rally in Madison Square Garden, not Virginia.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

You’re using “American” rather loosely here. Southerners were great people then too. If Southerners then were “bad people”, so were all of our founding fathers. You also seem to be willfully ignoring the very different conception of the federal system as it was understood at the time of the war. People like Lee thought that the Union government had betrayed the Constitution. Now, you may not have agreed with them, but they had a legitimate grievance and a strong enough leg to stand on to convince 11 states to secede with them (and nearly 3 others as well), to the point that it had to be settled by force of arms. Yours is a rather simplistic view of the events.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

@AndrewCFollett @wil_da_beast630 Southerners disliked Hitler because they are predominantly Anglo-Saxon. Not because of whatever ridiculous projection that is.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

Race relations here are more honest (if that is the right word, perhaps a better one would be realistic) than I think they are in most places, so I am in agreement once again. I do not think it impossible, but the challenge will be breaking the democratic machine’s hold on the black voter. A great many people benefit from the current state of our racial politics. I suspect it will take a period of crisis for sweeping change to take place. But we ought to be due for that at some point.

I have some optimism for Mississippi’s future, if nothing else because the South seems to be ascendant for the first time in 200 years. But we must get our house in order as we well know. I would be glad to see some honest discussion on race. I am from Jackson, so I know all too well the consequences of our inability to do so.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

I am in agreement on this point. It would be foolish to think it could ever be a majority of blacks, but I do believe you could broadly appeal to the middle class and above blacks whose income doesnt depend on political handouts. Mississippi cannot improve if it does not chart a path forward that benefits all of its citizens regardless of race.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

It does seem that there may be a bit of a revival in some of the “Southern” culture, or at least some of its symbols may experience a resurgence. I admit that I would like to see it. I find that more of the out of state kids wear the Col. Reb gear than we do. Had a long conversation on this topic recently and the gist of it was that it seems that there is not the same lower class stigma with it that it developed here after Jim Crow and what not. Could make for a rather different future than we might have expected.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

This is purely anecdotal, but i will share this story as it occurred a few months ago and was an odd experience regarding a group of Yankees. We were at a bar in Oxford, and were talking with some Ohio parents of an Ole Miss student who were talking about moving to town permanently (this has become a common occurrence). When i asked why they wanted to, I kid you not, this man pointed at our confederate statue and said “I’ll be here as long as that is here”. I bring this up because I now have no idea what people think about the racism issue that used to plague the state. It was always a bit overblown, certainly today it is, but that was a rather surprising experience. No idea what it means.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

Oxford’s growth is probably the best chance the state has to build, even if on a small scale, a good place for younger people to live. I like Madison, but it is an old place. And Jackson is dead for all intents and purposes. To me, the Coast is culturally a completely different place so I cant really speak to what that would be like.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

@Memphissippi6 @john_st_helen @TheBirdmanDan I have mixed feelings. I am hopeful that it is good for the state, but we have the opportunity problems you mention below. Were it not for the fact that my families business is tied to the state, I would have considered leaving. But my ties are too deep here now to leave.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

@Memphissippi6 @john_st_helen @TheBirdmanDan I enjoy that it is overlooked. It is perhaps the best state to be wealthy in, if you can manage it. Especially if you can live in Oxford or, i suppose, on the coast. But I am a north and central Mississippi supremacist.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

@john_st_helen @Garbagestyleman @sonofcomely @Empty_America Some of us are descendants of VA and SC planters who moved here long, long after the War, for, I guess, reasons.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

Regarding fortunes, our families was also lost in the War. As far as I know, our people never left the Southern states, so I do not know that I agree that the phenomenon of fleeing the Southern states was as common as is said. There has been a brain drain from Mississippi in particular (it gets miserably hot, this summer being as bad as I can remember), but for the most part the people are going to other Southern states. Or at least that was the path of most in my broader circle.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

It is a unique place. I was born here, but my family moved here (for reasons i never quite understood) from South Carolina. We are directly descended from families of the "traditional episcopal / planter class", but not from this state. My understanding is that class here has always been small. The Episcopal church remains very small, and has become more so with its progressive tilt.

I have always had a harder time getting along with the hard shell Baptist types you describe, but, having read the post youre quoting and that fellows screenshots below, I get the impression that much of this is exaggerated. In any case, it is certainly a poor state and is likely to remain so, but there are parts (Oxford, among a few others) that I think are as good to live as anywhere.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

@Swampist In book two right now. It’s June 1863. Port Hudson is besieged by Banks. But our men hold on.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

@Zoomer_South I am listening to them now. I quite enjoy Foote’s style.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

You would think this is obvious, like, something you’d figure out after a few times of seeing a woman cry explicitly to get what she wants. It’s no different than any other form of coercion or manipulation to get what you want. It’s as if fundamental aspects of human nature are simply unknown to most people. Not sure how one goes through life in such a state.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

I think at least some of it can be explained by classism. The BoomerCons idea of discussing racial and immigration issues was shaped by their experience during the Jim Crow era, where lower class whites were associated with vulgar forms of “mass racism” and it was a pretty powerful political movement. At some level they probably still associate discussion or concern about these issues to be “low status”. By responding this way anytime it comes up you signal that “I’m not white trash”. But things change, now I’d argue that the low class “mass” belief is best put in the progressive / anti racist bucket. And so the cycle continues.

[Messalla @LuciusMessalla]

@xwanyex And, of course, if anyone can become something, it is definitionally not particularly special. But that would seem to be part of the point.