@PresbyInn@Protestia The stated clerk is certainly *a* leader. There was no need to say anything at all, certainly not supporting pastors who openly mock the resurrection.
This is why O:R is going nowhere. The church was already rebuked and continues to flaunt the slap on the wrist they got.
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 That’s a lot more to the story than RZ tells you. The Presbyterian Journal fought liberalism from 1946. Several times conservatives stayed in the church even as liberals hand picked their own for boards and committees. They didn’t just “up and run after 3 yrs.”
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 The conservatives fought through the ordination of women, the reorganization of presbyteries and synods, & the control of groups like the Fellowship of Saint James. They finally left when liberals pushed abortion, merger with UPUSA, and shut conservatives out of committees.
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 You say that, but if you see how few people actually left it doesn’t hold up. Liberals like to take control of institutions; *decades* of conservatives “persistence” against that failed.
O:R have more in common with Erdman than Macartney, certainly than Machen.
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 Jeremiah also didn’t sacrifice to the demons, and arguably worshipping in a church with LGBT or liberal theology is doing just that. Besides the Temple was the only place to sacrifice and worship back then. Do you say the same about the PCUSA?
@farmingandJesus A PEE-can is something you go in. Puh-CON is the nut.
(CARE-uh-mel is more gooey and in a chocolate bar. CAR-mul is a chewy candy made from the same stuff.)
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 Compare fruit then. If the PCUSA were the One True Church (TM), they’d have something to show for it other than genealogy; as a whole its actions & trajectory in the last 90 years have proved Machen and the PCA fathers right.
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 For me the fruit of the PCA - 50 years of faithfulness, growth, Biblical ecumenism, & spread of the Reformed faith throughout the US and a huge missionary army - refutes the idea that it us cursed.
PCUSA fruit is not good. Maybe your congregation’s is - if so praise God.
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 You haven’t been clear that you think they are. You’ve been asking me if I thought they were, as if I might say no. I got the impression you were trying to gotcha me. If this is wrong then I apologize but you still haven’t been straight with me.
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 I think they are. I agree with Westminster. It’s your fellow travelers who say non mainline churches are outside of the visible church . I’ve asked if you agree and you refuse to answer.
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 The fruits:
VP still very small, some are more focused on attacking the PCA
PCA is growing more faithful by the day.
OPC punches above its weight in teaching and theology
PCUSA grew more liberal as the Edrmans (who fit the PftK model) let liberals finish takeover (big tent)
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 St. Andrew’s Chapel - mostly personality based, I don’t think they should have left but the jury is still out on who is at fault.
VPC - The people & many pastors, no. However the big reason for leaving was Revoice which was dealt with. Now there’s a lot of slander which is sin.
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 Tell me Lesley, do you agree with the Confession that all who profess the true religion are part of the visible church, or do you follow your friends who say I’m not in the visible church (and probably not saved) if I’m not PCUSA?
@Cripletriple3@andrewnrice1@BroPresby@w_dodd23 Just because people are trying to slip women in the back door of PCA leadership - which is being addressed - doesn’t mean we should say “oh well let’s jump to a fully egalitarian church with LGBT leaders - maybe we can change them if we wish hard enough.”