Some instances where the apostles quoted a proto-Masoretic OT Hebrew text *diverging* from the Septuagint (LXX):
Matthew 2:15:
“Out of Egypt, I called my son.”
Hosea 11:1 (MT):
“Out of Egypt, I called my son.”
Hosea 11:2 (LXX):
“Out of Egypt, I called back Israel’s children.”
@JLuttje If believing Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and following his teachings is not enough to be called Christian, then you have made membership in a creed more important than membership in Christ.
What makes someone a Christian? Is it the belief in and allegiance to the Jesus Christ of the New Testament, knowing that he died for our sins and rose the 3rd day and trying to follow him? Or adherence to post biblical creeds that Jesus nor his apostles ever saw or approved of?
@voosiki I've never understood why trinitarians use this as a proof text. We also use "name" in the singular for multiple people in similar ways. For example: "To the battle, in the name of God, country, and the King!" The singular use of name does not prove what they think it does.
@AngelRHK48@QuestionTrinity Why "persons"? God is never described as 3 "persons" or 3 of anything for that matter. And If God is 3 persons, then how is Jesus God since he is one person, not 3? Same with the Father and Spirit. Where does it say the Angel of Yah is the word? Seem you're importing ideas
The cultural consciousness would improve if we stopped saying "pregnant" and went back to saying "with child". We need to retrain the collective subconscious through discourse that it is actually a child, your child, not a clinical condition.
What Calvinists call “mystery”, “tension”, or “paradox” in Scripture are really just contradictions created by bad doctrine.
If we encounter what seems to be a contradiction in the Scriptures, we must assume error on our part, not a contradiction on God’s part.
let's get uncomfortable in the Christian community this morning, shall we?! lol
The more i personally study Scripture for myself... the more i’ve started feeling like the Trinity may actually be one of those later theological systems that people now read back into the Bible instead of something the biblical authors themselves were directly trying to teach. And honestly... i don’t even think u necessarily need the Trinity framework at all in order to understand Scripture, follow Christ, or believe what the apostles preached.
When i read the Bible plainly...i see constant emphasis on the Father as the one true God. Jesus repeatedly points people toward the Father. The apostles constantly distinguish between God & Jesus in their greetings, prayers, sermons, & teachings.
Paul says: “For us there is one God, the Father...” 1 Corinthians 8:6
Jesus Himself says:“My Father is greater than i.” John 14:28
And maybe one of the biggest verses for me personally is when Jesus prays: “That they might know thee the only true God, & Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” John 17:3
When i slow down & just let those verses speak naturally...without importing centuries of later doctrinal language into them... it honestly feels much simpler than the complicated metaphysical explanations modern theology often builds around them.
What really started standing out 2 me was realizing the word “Trinity” itself is nowhere in Scripture... nor do we see the apostles ever explaining God using phrases like:
• “three co equal persons”
• “one essence”
• “co eternal”
• “God the Son”
• “God the Holy Spirit”
Those are all later theological constructions.
Again...bi understand why church history developed those ideas. People were trying 2 reconcile verses showing Christ’s divinity w/ verses showing distinction, submission, prayer, obedience, & the Father being identified as God. But personally... i’ve started wondering if alot of those later councils were trying to philosophically solve tensions Scripture itself simply leaves in place.
& sometimes i think modern Western Christianity unintentionally treats the Trinity almost like a required lens that every verse must fit into...instead of letting the text define itself naturally.
To me... the apostles preached Christ crucified, risen, exalted, Messiah, Son of God, Lord... & not a fully articulated doctrine of triune ontology. When Acts records evangelism over & over... people are called to repent, believe in Christ, follow God, receive the Spirit...but nobody is ever walked thru the later creedal formulas we now often treat as central.
So personally... i’ve started asking myself whether the Trinity is actually Scripture’s foundation... or whether it became a later interpretive framework layered over Scripture after centuries of debate, philosophy, empire influence, & doctrinal consolidation.
That does not mean i deny Christ’s authority, divinity, glory, or unique role whatsoever. It just means i’m no longer convinced the later creedal system itself is required in order to faithfully read or understand the Bible the way the earliest believers did.
✝️📖🕊️🙏👑✝️🔥🌿⚔️
The sad reality of the Trinity Doctrine is that many Christians relegate the Father to a mere footnote. This cursory acknowledgment effectively disregards Christ’s main mission on earth: to glorify and reveal the Father.
PETER DOESN’T BELIEVE JESUS IS GOD!
“And Peter said, ‘Men of Israel, why do you wonder at this…? The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate.’” Acts 3:12–13
“But Peter and the apostles answered, ‘We must obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior.’” Acts 5:29–31
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!” 1 Peter 1:3
“Then Jesus said to them, ‘But who do you say that I am?’ And Peter answered, ‘The Christ of God.’” Luke 9:20
The Bible gives no pattern for salvation in which one must believe in anything remotely close to the Trinity. Jesus never taught it, nor did the apostles.
@AleMartnezR1@CertainSpeaks What do you think of 2Sam 7:14, 1Chr 17:13 being applied to Jesus in Heb 1:5? "He >will be< a son", why is this prophecy future tense if Jesus already was a son? Same with Lk 1:32. Ps 22 is messianic, vs 10 has God being Jesus's God since his mother bore him...
It’s actually embarrassing to use AI, like Grok or ChatGPT, to try and prove a theological point, especially since AI can be trained to give you any answer you want. AI even gives verifiably wrong answers regularly.
Using AI to prove a point isn’t a dunk. It’s unserious.
Catholics and Orthodox have LOST the plot! They have altogether become Pharisees, holding traditions of men over the commandments of God.
The Gospel is Christ and His kingdom + nothing.
The Christian does not stand before a council, a bishop, or a tradition on judgment day. He stands before Christ.
Any authority that stops pointing to Christ and starts requiring submission to itself has become a rival.
Christ does not share his mediatorial office with anyone.
The church is not the Savior’s replacement. It is supposed to be the Savior’s witness.
A true church leads you to Christ. A false church makes itself the gatekeeper to Christ.
At the end of the day, God made us with our own mind, conscience, and will. A true servant of Christ knows this.
He does not seek to control another man’s conscience, to input himself between you and Christ; but to patiently and loving aid it.
The goal is not dependence on men, churches, or tradition. It’s in the power of God that changes you into righteous works, and faith, and preparation for the kingdom to come.
Matthew 11:28 — “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
John 14:6 — “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
1 Timothy 2:5 — “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Acts 4:12 — “There is salvation in no one else…”
John 5:22–23 — The Father has given judgment to the Son.
2 Corinthians 5:10 — “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ.”
Romans 14:10–12 — “We will all stand before the judgment seat of God… each of us will give an account of himself to God.”
Colossians 2:8–10 — Don’t be taken captive by philosophy or human tradition; believers are complete in Christ.
Hebrews 4:14��16 — Because Christ is our great high priest, we approach the throne with confidence.
Hebrews 7:25 — Christ is able to save completely because he always lives to intercede.
Hebrews 5:4-10 is a brutal passage for anyone who thinks the author of Hebrews believes he has demonstrated that Jesus *is* God by Hebrews 1:10:
"No one takes this honor upon himself; *he* must be called *by God*, *just as Aaron* was. *So also Christ* did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest, but he *was called* by the One who said to him: “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.” And in another passage God says: “You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.” During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears *to the One who could save him* from death, and *he was heard because of his reverence.* Although he was a Son, he *learned obedience* from what he suffered. And having been *made perfect*, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him and was *designated by God* as high priest in the order of Melchizedek."
Oooof. Let's go bit by bit:
1. "No one takes this honor [of priesthood] upon himself; *he* must be called *by God*."
The author is setting up a distinction between the high-priest Jesus and God. Jesus, on the one hand, is called by God, on the other. Jesus isn't God, but called by Him.
2. "*just as* Aaron was"
Jesus is compared to Aaron. No one thinks Aaron is God who then chose Himself (one of Himselfs?).
3. "*So also Christ* did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest, but he *was called* by the One"
Context tells us 'the One' here is God. Christ is called by God. You do not call yourself. Two distinct things.
4. "who said to him: “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.”"
God speaks *to* Jesus. God is also identified here exclusively as the Father. There is God, who becomes the Son's Father.
(Note this also isn't very kind to the idea of eternal begetting, but that's a subject for another post! :) )
5. "He [i.e., the Son] offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears *to the One who could save him* from death, and *he was heard because of his reverence.*"
The Son here offers up prayers and petitions to God, because God is the one who can save the Son from death. This is not God talk. The Son is then heard *by God* *because of his reverence*. This makes ~0 iotas of sense if the Son himself actually *were* God.
6. "Although he was a Son, he *learned obedience* from what he suffered."
The Son has to *learn obedience*. It would be a bizarre thing for the author of Hebrews to say if he thought the Son *was* God.
7. "And having been *made perfect*"
Similar to 6. If the author of Hebrews thought the Son was God, then the Son obviously *already is* perfect.
8. "was *designated by God* as high priest"
Again, the author believes there's God, on the one hand, and the Son who is made high priest *by God*, on the other.
Again and again and again and again and again throughout Hebrews, both before and after Trinitarians' favourite ambiguous proof-text of Hebrews 1:8, the author speaks in ways that statistically preclude the idea that he thinks the Son actually *is* God.