Epke ✝️

Universalism (not pluralism) discord server

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox Lord speaking: Isaiah 1:11-13: Bring no more fine flour, it is vain; incense is an abomination to me.

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox In the verse I just shared, people were offering incense without the command of the Lord and were killed for it. This wasn't even idolatry, they just weren't commanded to do it.
That already is a grave sin to the Lord

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox Leviticus 10:1-2 Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu took their censers, put fire in them and added incense; and they offered unauthorized fire before the Lord, contrary to his command. 2 So fire came out from the presence of the Lord and consumed them, and they died before the Lord.

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox Meaning if the gesture of offering incense is a gesture/practise due to God alone, then according to your own standard icon veneration and Nicaea 2 is IDOLATRY

I've given biblical and early church evidence that incense IS latria, now you must prove it's not

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox Dude you're all over the place, a few moments ago you said the intention is irrelevant. The KEY condition for idolatry you said is "giving a created thing the worship and honor due to God alone."

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox If you wish to suggest a different interpretation you need to substantiate that not just assert it

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox You’re mutilating the text, he does say: “the image of Christ is Christ”

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox this is a side point but no he isn’t you’re speaking without knowledge. Price even calls it a contradiction, “theodore accepts that the veneration of an image of Christ involves worship in the full sense of the word” p48 price 2020

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox I’m not assuming, I said if.

The bible and early church consider incense latria, so you bear the burden of proof to show the icon context somehow changes that completely

Good luck

[Casey Krol @CaseyKrol]

Bishop says "They are not refugees, they're invaders who want to Islamize Europe. They want to destroy historical culture in Europe" ✝️

Do you agree with the Bishop?

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox I understand he doesn't think he's worshipping wood and paint as such. My point here was that he contradicts Nicaea 2, as that forbids latria to icons as being idolatry

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox I'm talking about your lifeless images not Jesus as image of the Father

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@0penHidden @IndianaBrunner @MissNyox Your defence fades away then, because the intention or belief doesn't matter, what matters is giving a created thing worship due to God alone. This means that if incense is due to God alone which the early Christians believed then icon veneration is idolatry according to them.

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@zekeswrld_ @johncdirks I also substantiated that statement with a source saying exactly that

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@zekeswrld_ @johncdirks You could say I was wrong or collapsing distincions, but I haven't made a new distinction have I?

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@NewsNFTU @OrthoBruno Even if the complete reception was in 56 years, that is 56 years after the council. So then according to reception theory the bishops of the council had to wait that many years to be able to declare it inspired

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@NewsNFTU @OrthoBruno And history isn't telling me i'm sorely mistaken sir, on the contrary

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@NewsNFTU @OrthoBruno Price notes that “for centuries afterwards Nicaea II was not added to the list of ecumenical councils in Syria–Palestine” (204) and in the West it was not until portions of Nicaea II were included in Gratian’s Decretum of c. 1140 that it entered “mainstream” canon law (76).

[Epke ✝️ @epke82]

@NewsNFTU @OrthoBruno Ware isn't the only source https://t.co/NMk2lBbpU7