This is what happens with people who start to believe in God for “miracles” and “signs” it produces a hollow faith not founded on the pure Word of God.
“A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.”
Matthew 16:4 KJB
Do Catholics ever make an authentic and accurate argument with even a shred of Scripture, or is 'we gave you the Bible' the emergency response whenever Rome's teaching is questioned? Scripture was inspired by God; the early church recognized its canon, it did not create it. And recognizing the canon does not establish the Roman papacy, Marian dogmas, purgatory, indulgences, or the Mass as a propitiatory sacrifice. You have not cited a single apostolic text proving any of it, just invoked later institutional authority to dismiss the question.
@AtkinsonChip@BibleInContext1 Then let’s make it about salvation: according to Rome, what must a sinner do to be saved, and can he know now that he has eternal life? Jesus says the believer “has eternal life” and “has passed from death to life” (John 3:16; 5:24). Is Christ’s finished work enough, or not?
Not at all. An Old-Covenant command to build a typical temple does not authorize later churches to extract huge sums for monuments. Christ fulfilled that system; the NT calls believers God’s temple and never commands tithes for cathedrals. That’s the point. Are you saved? (1 Cor 10:1-4, Romans 10:9-13, Titus 3:5, Rom 4:4-5)
@MichaelsRosary@thewheel5950@FoxNews@ChanleySPainter Jesus built His Church. But citing “the rock” does not make Peter a Roman bishop, give Rome universal jurisdiction, or make salvation rest on Rome. Christ is the foundation (1 Cor. 3:11); all apostles are foundational (Eph. 2:20). That premise is yours to prove.
Far-right religious extremism is the most dangerous because it wears Christ’s name while replacing His finished work with political power and a moral résumé. It looks lamb-like, speaks like a dragon, and coerces (Rev. 13:11–18). “Lord, Lord” is not saving faith (Matt. 7:21–23). Get saved today (1 Cor 15:1-4, Rom 10:9-14, Titus 3:5, Rom 4:5)
Sure, but at some point you will be left with the question, what did I do with the cross? Did i accept fully what was given freely for me? The magitude of the saricifice made for my soul's account... or did I instead follow man made traditions leading to self righteousness and pride. You are either fully covered in His blood, or lukewarm. God bless.
I understand your position. You believe initial justification is free grace, then God enables a believer to cooperate with grace. I understand that. Do you understand my objection?
First, I never said apostolic doctrine is no longer needed. I hold to apostolic doctrine. I follow it more closely than a system that takes later church claims, calls them apostolic Tradition, and then makes them binding without showing they came from an apostle.
2 Thessalonians 2:15 tells believers to hold the traditions they received from the apostles, whether by word or epistle. Amen. That is not the same thing as giving a blank check to every later Roman doctrine or church custom. If you say a doctrine is apostolic, show where the apostles taught it.
The apostles are the foundation of the church (Eph. 2:20). The faith was once delivered to the saints (Jude 3). Peter wrote so believers would have the apostolic teaching in remembrance after his death (2 Pet. 1:15), and he calls Paul’s letters Scripture (2 Pet. 3:15–16). Church fathers can be historical witnesses, but they are not apostles. They do not get to bind my conscience or sit over the written word of God.
Scripture is able to make a man wise unto salvation and thoroughly furnish the man of God unto all good works (2 Tim. 3:15–17). So when a church says it does not derive certainty about all revealed truth from Scripture alone, but puts Scripture and Tradition beside each other with equal reverence, as CCC 82 does, that is the disagreement.
And Rome does bind people with church laws. CCC 2041 calls them “positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities” and says they are obligatory. CCC 2042 names Mass attendance, annual confession, and yearly Communion. Calling something “Tradition” does not prove it came from the apostles. Show it from the apostolic record.
But this is now the fourth time you have moved away from the question that matters most: how is a sinner finally saved? CCC 2010 says no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification. Then it says, “we can then merit for ourselves … the attainment of eternal life.” Trent, Session 6, Canon 32 says the justified, through grace-enabled works, “truly merit … eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life, if so be, however, that he depart in grace.”
And CCC 1861 says mortal sin causes the loss of sanctifying grace and, if not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, results in exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell.
So answer plainly: can a justified Catholic merit the attainment of eternal life, yes or no? And can a justified Catholic lose sanctifying grace and die eternally lost through mortal sin, yes or no?
If the answer is yes—and your catechism and Trent say it is—then the front door may be called free grace, but staying in the room is conditional on your cooperation, your remaining in grace, and your final merit. That is not the gospel Paul preached.
Paul says God “justifieth him that worketh not, but believeth” (Rom. 4:5). “If by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace” (Rom. 11:6). Christ says the believer has everlasting life, shall not come into condemnation, and is passed from death unto life (John 5:24).
I am not against obedience. Obedience is fruit. But if you are trusting your grace-enabled cooperation to help you attain eternal life, you are not resting in what Christ already finished for you. Christ did not make a down payment and leave you to maintain the account. He saves to the uttermost.
Answer the salvation question.
Did you know that Romans 3:25 of the KJV explicitly says for *you* to put your faith (trust) in the shed blood of Jesus?
Take a look at what the majority of other per(versions) teach... and no, it is not the same. Don't be dishonest.
@metathomist "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah." (Matthew 12:39)
The sign of Jonah is Christ's death, burial and resurrection on the third day. Christ is all we need.
@HookEm2005@FoxNews@ChanleySPainter I've given you the scriptures, and you continue to fail to answer this question: Are you completely saved by His finished work, or does your church add conditions after the fact?
You still have not answered the question. How are you saved? I asked the only question that matters for a sinner. You answered with “the Church was born Catholic” and “we gave you the Bible.” That is not the gospel. That is “my church is the true church.” Scripture calls that carnal, and it is cultish. “I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas” (1Corinthians 1:12). Christ is not divided. A sinner is not saved by picking the winning brand.
The Catholic Church did not give us the Bible. God did. “All scripture is given by inspiration of God”(2 Timothy 3:16). The oracles of God were committed to the Jews (Romans 3:2), long before Rome had a throne to take credit. Jesus already taught from“the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the psalms”(Luke 24:44). Timothy already knew the Holy Scriptures from a child (2 Timothy 3:15). Peter already classed Paul’s epistles with “the other scriptures” (2 Peter 3:16). The word was scripture before your church held a council about it. Alibrarian does not become the author because he shelved the book.
You say I use a Bible with torn-out pages. Jesus marked the line from Abel to Zacharias (Luke 11:51). That is, Genesis to Chronicles, the Hebrew oracles, not the extra books Trent bound under anathema in 1546. Israel was not given those books as the oracles of God. Jesus did not put them in Moses, the prophets, and the psalms. Adding them later and then accusing everyone else of tearing pages out is a neat trick. It is still not history.
“Catholic” is not the name Christ gave His church. He founded it on Himself. “Other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1Corinthians 3:11). The Bereans were noble because they searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so (Acts 17:11). They did not ask which later institution owned the book.
If I am ignorant, answer the question you ran from. How are you saved? Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). God justifies“him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly” (Romans 4:5). If staying saved hangs on your church, your sacraments, and your obedience, you have changed the condition. That is another gospel. “Let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8). A name on a building is still not a foundation, it is a false gospel and an unsaving one.