I'm coaching a SaaS company doing over $18M ARR (and growing fast).
They have 15 AEs.
Some of their leads come from SDR/BDR efforts.
Usually, they'd start the disco by asking prospects what problems they have.
Prospects: "I don't know much about what you do."
The AEs would try and dig for pain
It was like pulling teeth.
Prospects were getting annoyed and the calls never converted.
Buyers usually fall into 5 stages of the buyer awareness chart (see image):
1. Problem unaware
2. Problem aware
3. Solution aware
4. Product aware
5. Most aware
Most inbound leads fall into stage 2-5.
Asking them about their current state (challenges) usually works.
Outbound is such a different animal because many times prospects fall into the:
→ Problem unaware stage
And when you're speaking with this type of prospect, you cannot treat them like an inbound lead.
That's why it feels like pulling teeth and getting to pain is so hard.
So I had them change their approach.
Whenever prospects are in the problem unaware stage and asks "what do you do?"
They tell a short story.
And it usually starts like:
"Typically, [business owners] come to us because they're dealing with spending too much time in the business, for example, they'll:
[problem 1]
[problem 2]
[problem 3]
and what they come to us for is to automate all of that."
TL;DR:
Your discovery questions should align with your prospect's buying journey.
The earlier they are in the journey, the more uneducated they are about their problems.
Problem unaware requires more story telling.
Discovery without context is like reading a book with missing page.
Traditional sales scorecards are ruining sales teams.
Sales scorecards are outdated and 99% of them create cognitive overload.
Expecting sales reps to juggle countless skills simultaneously is a recipe for failure.
There's a better way.
One that ensures AEs never forget their skills and consistently perform at their best.
Last year, I closed a $3,500 MRR deal with a CRO after following this unconventional outbound strategy.
I believe elite sellers will do this in 2025 and beyond.
Most content around sending cold emails is focused on crafting a good message.
It's important, but it's still hard to get a stranger to reply.
Here are the exact steps I took:
(1) ADD TO LEAD LIST:
This first step plants the seed.
Can't stress enough how important it is to add your prospects into a named lead list in LinkedIn's Sales Navigator.
It's easy access to find these leads when you're taking a multi-channel approach to outreach.
(2) CONTENT ENGAGEMENT:
Every day, I filtered my feed on LinkedIn based on my lead list I created.
It made it REALLY easy for me to only focus on commenting on my prospect's content instead of everyone else.
My goal was for them to like or comment on my comment.
If they viewed my profile or sent me a connect request, I knew I was on their radar.
I did this for about 1-2 months.
BONUS: I also engaged in their colleague's LinkedIn content.
(3) AUDIT:
I happened to love the product and was interested in a demo.
So I audited my journey as a prospect from TOF all the way through the demo.
I added all of my findings in a Google doc.
(4) "COLD" EMAIL:
About 2 months later, I cold emailed them referencing our engagement on LinkedIn.
In the email, I shared my findings from my "prospect journey"
All I did was add value.
The only area in the email that I referenced my services was in the P.S. section.
"I help [elevator pitch]. Let me know if you'd be interested in exploring further."
This got the CROs attention the same day.
It was a "long" process, but I was optimizing for reply, not just activity.
Takeaway: Build familiarity first, in order to cold prospect.
Most sales emails suck because they’re written like boring job applications—not like real conversations.
You should write the way you talk.
Here are 2 basic hacks that I do:
1. Write to a friend:
Put your best friends name/email in the recipient field in the email.
Seeing their name will trick your brain into thinking you're emailing them.
The way you speak to a friend is much more natural.
(when done, replace name with the prospects email)
2. Talk it out:
The 2nd hack is dictation.
You can use your phone or computer app to dictate the email.
Actually talk out loud to write the email.
I personally do this when I'm creating emails or content.
It's easy and super natural.
When I was a VP of sales, the worst AE on my team was closing 40-50% of their demos.
The best ones closed 65-71%.
We used the same 6 psychology tricks on demos that top movie producers use to build a high performing SMB sales team.
Most people I know first watched the trailers before going to the theaters.
The point of a movie trailer is to give you a sneak peek of what's to come.
The psychology behind a movie trailer is all about feelings.
Here are 6 psychology tricks movie trailers have + how to use them on demos:
1. CLIFFHANGERS:
→ Affect: Leaving the audience with an unfinished scene or mystery makes people curious and eager to watch.
↳ Demo Tactic: End w/ a teaser about what will be covered in the next call (e.g. "on our next call, I'll show you how we solve X")
2. QUICK CUTS & FAST PACE:
→ Affect: Using short, fast scenes keeps attention and prevents boredom.
↳ Demo Tactic: Keep feature talk tracks brief and focused throughout the call.
3. RELTABLE CHARACTERS:
→ Affect: Showing characters people can connect with helps viewers imagine themselves in the story.
↳ Demo Tactic: Share a customer story that matches the prospect's own challenges.
4. HERO'S JOURNEY PREVIEW:
→ Affect: Giving a taste of the hero's struggle and victory makes people root for them.
↳ Demo Tactic: Show the path from current struggles to future success with your solution (make the prospect the hero on this journey).
5. HIGHLIGHTING BIG STARS:
→ Affect: Showing well known actors builds trust, people more likely to watch if they like the cast.
↳ Demo Tactic: Mention recognizable clients or well known brands to build credibility.
6. SUSPENSFUL PAUSES:
→ Affect: Pausing before a big moment builds suspense, making people want to see what happens next.
↳ Demo Tactic: Pause before / after showing a feature, let it sink in (2-3 seconds is a good amount of time).
If I were leading a high velocity SMB sales team with an ACV of < $10,000 and a <30 day sales cycle, I would not implement the traditional sales methodologies.
I’ve heard some people say to use BANT for SMB.
A common BANT talk track: “are you the decision maker?”
This is the worst question to ask, even in SMB..
At the very least, every SMB sales team should learn how to:
1. What are the problems?
2. What is the size of these problems?
3. Who’s being impacted by these issues?
4. How long have they experienced these issues?
5. What have they tried in the past to solve it?
6. Why now?
7. What other solutions are they evaluating?
8. Who else is evaluating the solutions with them?
9. How are they going to decide which solution is the best fit?
10. What will success look like after 30-60-90 days of implementation?
This is a ‘current state’ approach to doing discovery.
BONUS: You can still close a deal if the prospect does not have pain.
Many buyers in SMB space are looking for a ‘transformation.’
Sellers need to know how to pivot and focus on prospect goals.
This is a ‘future state’ approach to doing discovery.
Takeaway: I would use elements of traditional sales methodologies, but customize it based our prospects and company.
The 3 worst questions to ask on discovery calls before your demo:
→ "Can you tell me about your business?"
→ "Are you the decision maker?"
→ "What features do you need?"
The problem with these questions is:
→ You're asking something you could have been Googled
→ You're insulting their authority, but also assume it ends with them
→ You're not focused on solving the problem, and end up feature dumping
Instead, here are 6 better questions to ask:
1/ "What challenges are you specifically having now that you think we'd be able to help solve?"
I recommend this be your leading discovery question since it anchors the entire conversation around pain (exactly what you want).
The prospect usually opens up fast about their problems, especially since the ending of that question assumes you may NOT be a fit (i.e. unselling them).
2/ "Every time I speak to a business like yours, they're usually focused on [SOLVING SPECIFIC PROBLEM], how aligned is that with your vision?"
Ask this question if you know the exact buyer persona and buying scenario your prospect fits into (based on your historic deals).
People want to do business with people they trust.
Show them you understand their world and you'll earn their business.
3/ "Whether you go with us or some other solution, what would success look like to you in the first 90 days of implementation?"
I usually like asking this question after I've found out the prospect's pain.
This question is focused on the prospect's goals and expectations (something they typically keep hidden).
The prospect will give you EXACTLY what they want, spoon-feeding you the deal.
4/ "Assuming we'd still be a fit after you see the demo, besides you, who on your team would need to trial this?"
We forget that 'end users' influence the entire decision.
E.g. If your prospect rolls out new software for their sales team, but they unanimously hate it, they won't buy it.
Remember, influencing leads to decision making.
5/ "Who in your team will think you don't actually need this?"
There's always someone in the deal that pops the air out of your opportunity.
And usually, they're a 'hidden decision maker' or influencer.
If you don't ask this question, you'll only find out when it's too late.
6/ "What are the chances that you'll end up just sticking to what you've currently been using?"
Your biggest competitor is status quo.
It's easier to stick to what you know than to try something new (especially, when your job is on the line).
Find out the probability of losing the deal as early as possible.
A few AEs recently asked me: How do I get prospects to open up more and get to the source of the problem?
I'll share 1 of the many ways I teach other sales teams how to get prospects to open up more through what I call "RPS" or Reverse Problem Solving.
The traditional ways sellers do discovery is by asking prospects to talk about their problems.
This is the Current State <> Future State discovery framework.
The current state approach: Ask about the prospect’s current problems first and then their future goals to quickly find their pain points with a direct approach.
The reason why so many sellers struggle with this is because asking a stranger (AKA a prospect you just met) to share with you their problems, fears, concerns is a big ask.
Buyers have a tendency to not trust salespeople.
That's why so many prospects aren't comfortable opening up right away and aren't willing to even share who they're evaluating aside from your company.
In most instances, using the "current state" discovery process works.
But for sellers that struggle with this, there's a different approach that will help (Future State discovery).
Future State (RPS):
Reverse Problem Solving focuses on sellers asking about the prospect’s future goals first and then working backwards to understand their current situation, which helps gradually uncover their problems and impacts.
It can be easier for prospects to discuss their challenges by first talking about their goals - less intrusive.
STEP 1: START WITH FUTURE GOALS
Identify what the prospect wants to achieve first.
→ Ask: "What are your top goals right now for [business/department]?"
→ Follow-up: "How will you determine if it's a win? how will you measure if it was successful?"
STEP 2: GOAL STRATEGY
Find out what strategies the prospect believes they should do to achieve goal(s).
→ Ask: "What strategies have you thought about to [achieve goal]?"
→ Follow-up: "What have you tried already or doing that's been helping?"
STEP 3: GOAL PRVENTION
Find out what the prospect believes is preventing them from achieving their goals. This is usually where prospects will talk about their current state (i.e. problems/impact)
→ Ask: "What do you feel is then preventing you from successfully [achieving goal]?"
→ Follow-up: "What’s the toughest part about getting there?"
DISCLAIMER: If starting with current state is working, do not switch your approach.
I coach an SMB AE at a $100M ARR company who told me they were put on PIP.
This AE is married with kids and was on the verge of getting fired.
Imagine the stress and fear.
They went from PIP to hitting >130% quota 6 months in a row and making $10,000-$15,000 as an SMB AE.
And the #1 skill they've developed is the ability to assume.
But to assume that their product and offering are not a fit.
In other words, they look for problems.
They assume the prospect:
→ has a problem with your offering.
→ is thinking of staying with status quo.
→ has colleagues referring other solutions.
So when they speak with them, they ask questions like:
→ "what are the chances you'll stay with your current solution?"
→ "what do you feel isn't aligned about our offering?"
→ "what do you think will come up after we speak that will make you second guess this?"
Average salespeople are scared to look for problems and end up playing defense.
Elite salespeople call out elephants in the room and play offense.
I coach an SMB that hit 120% quota for September within the first 2 weeks.
They don't ask “what do you think next steps should be?” or “let’s just put something on the calendar”
None of those is consultative, and usually sounds like a typical salesperson.
Here are 4 things we've been working on for the last 30 days:
1. Set compelling next steps (for the prospect):
Many high velocity sales reps either go for 1-call closes or offload the work on the prospect.
Example: “should we just put some time on the calendar for next week to see where you’re at?”
Putting time on the calendar to sync up isn't compelling enough.
Instead, this AE comes prepared with multiple next steps in her back pocket.
By the time the demo is winding down, she knows exactly what the next steps are.
Example:
“So here’s what I think we should do… you had a few technical questions throughout this call that seem to be important for you and your partner to consider. Let’s do a part 2 call where we go over these technical questions in depth so you both will feel comfortable and confident in your decision. How does Thursday, same time look?”
2. Close-loss deals:
One of the biggest mistakes I see SMB sales teams make is keep deals in their pipeline open for longer than their average sales cycle.
I spoke to an AE that has an average sales cycle of 25 days, but they’re still following up with an opp that’s been open for 45 days (and unresponsive).
This AE trims the fat on her pipeline by using data to guide her (that’s what top AEs do).
3. Don’t sell alone:
So many SMB AEs aren’t trained to think about multi-threading.
Multi-threading internally shouldn’t just be a MM or ENT strategy.
This AE comes prepared to a call if she knows other stakeholders will be there too.
If she knows one of the stakeholders is concerned about data migration, she’ll bring in a data migration specialist to her demos.
If her prospect is concerned about onboarding and product adoption for their team, she’ll bring customer success and onboarding to her calls and emails.
4. Be radically transparent about what you don't do:
I noticed that this is hard for so many sellers.
Not being able to do something the prospect needs feels like a vulnerability (but it should not).
For example, if a prospect is very price sensitive and bring up the competitor’s pricing, this AE will say:
“If a solution with the cheapest price is your #1 priority, then [competitor] will win 10/10 times. But if [solving problem] is your priority, customers tell us we’re the best equipped to handle that.”
When you're clear about what you don't do, people trust you more for what you can do.
TL;DR:
Exceed your quota by doing these 4 things:
1. Set compelling next steps
2. Close-loss dragged out opps
3. Never sell alone
4. Be honest about what you don't do
2 months ago, I just spoke to a sales rep yesterday that said he wants to make $4,000-$5,000 more a month in commission.
When I asked him what the problem was he said:
Him: " 4pm I'm tapped out and end up half assing my last sales calls for the day and in the morning, I'm usually tired for my first 2 calls"
Me: "What time is your first call and when do you get into the office?"
Him: "9am and I usually come in 15 minutes before"
Me: "And how long do you take a lunch break for?"
Him: "haha, lunch break?! I don't, I just eat quickly when I can."
TAKEAWAY:
This rep was just surviving.
He didn't spend time mentally preparing for his first few calls.
And because he didn't take lunch breaks to disconnect a bit, he showed up tapped out for the last calls.
Taking time for your brain to recover is how you perform.
If I had to ramp up a team of 2-50 SMB AEs, I would not follow the traditional playbook.
I'd focus on 5 things to ramp them up as fast as possible.
It's what I did as a 2X VP of Sales, and what I advise companies today to scale high velocity sales teams:
1. Study the Buyer Persona:
→ Reason: To learn the pain.
→ Outcome: AEs will start to think like your buyers, and resonate on a deeper, more personalized level, rather than just focusing on features.
2. Spend 1-2 Weeks Answering Support Tickets:
→ Reason: To the learn the product
→ Outcome: AE's will have a deeper understanding of the product through real-life support scenarios.
3. Get on Sales Calls ASAP
→ Reason: To learn how to present
→ Outcome: AEs will learn how to read the room and cut their learning curve.
4. Follow Up with Lower Quality Leads
→ Reason: To practice.
→ Outcome: AEs will quickly shed their nerves and develop early confidence to handle high quality leads.
5. Sit on Sales Calls of Top Performers:
→ Reason: To absorb
→ Outcome: AEs will start to recognize the subtle cues & talk tracks that top performers use to build trust and influence with prospects.
The best playbook to ramp is the one that focuses on learning the buyers' world.
For a long time I believed that after you show price you should stay quiet.
"First one to speak loses"
It's outdated.
I listen to hundreds of sales calls a week for SMB AEs and when this happens, prospects usually respond back with:
"I have to speak to my boss/team"
"I'll get back to you if I have any questions"
"give me some time to think over this"
And that instantly puts the seller on the defensive.
That's where that awkward friction starts.
IMO, after you show the plans/pricing, lead with a question.
Here's how I'm teaching AEs & sales teams to do this:
Me: "Based on [PROBLEMS/GOALS] the best plan for you is X"
*give explanation of why it's relevant"
Me: "Do you feel that's the right plan as well knowing what I've shown you?"
The goal is to play offense.
What strategies do you feel are outdated in sales?
I coach an SMB AE that makes $10,000-$15,000 per month.
He doesn't ask "any questions?" or "does that make sense?" on his demos.
None of those questions tell you if the prospect actually sees value.
I taught him how to "micro-close" throughout his calls instead.
These secure small agreements at various points throughout the conversation.
Micro-closing guide prospects through the decision-making process, ensuring they're on board with each aspect of your solution before moving forward.
7 examples of micro-closes:
1. "Do you feel this is aligned with what you're looking for?"
→ This question checks if the solution matches the prospect’s expectations and needs, ensuring you're on the right track.
2. "On a scale of 1-10, 10 being this is EXACTLY what I need, where do you feel this sits?"
→ This helps gauge the prospect's interest and level of satisfaction, giving you insight into how well your solution fits their needs.
3. "Is this what you had in mind when you said you needed to [solve pain]?"
→ This confirms that the solution directly addresses the specific pain point the prospect mentioned, reinforcing relevance.
4. "Will [other stakeholder] think this solves [problem]?"
→ This question involves other decision-makers by predicting their approval, which helps to secure broader buy-in.
5. "Based on [your problem], how confident do you feel this will solve it?"
→ This prompts the prospect to express their confidence in the solution's effectiveness, moving them closer to commitment.
6. "Would this approach fit within your current strategy?"
→ This question prompts the prospect to consider how your solution aligns with their broader goals, leading to a small commitment.
7. "Does this feature address the challenge you mentioned earlier?"
→ This question directly ties the demo back to a specific pain point, helping the prospect see the relevance of your solution.
What questions do you ask after showing a (relevant) feature?
When I was a VP of sales, one of the things I prioritized was the sales playbook.
The problem with sales playbooks is nobody uses them and they build up Google Docs cobwebs.
Here’s what I’d recommend:
Move your sales playbook to something like Notion and embed Google docs in there if you need to.
As far as what I'd recommend including (This is just some of the stuff I did for a recent client):
✔️ Defined ICP and buying scenarios (and goals)
✔️ Discovery
✔️ Inbound call scripts (people still get inbounds and don't know how to handle them)
✔️ Demos
✔️ Sales demo script/run sheet
✔️ Sales enablement material (case studies, use cases etc)
✔️ CRM (definitions and how to)
✔️ Outbound
✔️ Cold call script
✔️ Sequence/cadence creation
✔️ Objections/Rebuttals
✔️ Competitor matrix
✔️ Comp plan[s]creation
✔️ Closing
✔️ Sales strategies for each month
✔️ Post Sale follow-up strategy
✔️ Handoff to CS/Acct Mgmt process
The playbook isn't to show off to your investors, it's to do 2 things:
1. Ramp up new salespeople faster
2. Enable current reps to improve
P.S. if you're looking to scale a high velocity SMB sales team, DM me.
cold calling is not 8 mile
you do not have one shot, one opportunity
if it doesn't make sense for them right now
just keep following up
compound interest is one the most powerful forces in the universe
but no, you want to use "objection overcomes" some internet goofball posted
Put yourself in positions to get lucky.
Send the DM. Make the post. Follow up again. Ask for something you probably won’t get. Talk to people who are ahead of you. Try things before you feel ready. Be persistent. Do enough reps that eventually something has to hit.
A lot of the best things that have happened to me involved some amount of luck.
But I also had to put myself in a position for that luck to find me.
Expose yourself to it.