@AmyInCheeseLand What I find hardest is finding a church willing to engage in real discussion, or even debate, about the difficult doctrines that divide Christian denominations. Everyone seems to have it all figured out, or at least acts like they do.
Rabbi, who do you believe “all Israel” includes? Is it those who remain when messiah returns? What about those who died in unbelief after messiah? And Romans 9 saying not all Israel is Israel is something I'm still trying to square. But one way or the other, I agree Paul is talking about God's plan for Israel itself, not the church replacing them.
I agree with your sentiment. Those verses are lament, not God being unable to do something. The one part I'd push back on is superseded Israel in 11:26. I think Paul makes a pretty clear distinction between the natural branches (Israel) and the wild branches (Gentiles), and he says Israel is still loved on account of the patriarchs because God's call is irrevocable. So I think God is going to keep his promises to Israel and restore them eventually.
I'll be honest, I haven't worked out exactly who "all Israel" includes, like what about those who died in unbelief after Christ? And Romans 9 saying not all Israel is Israel is something I'm still trying to square. But one way or the other, I think Paul's talking about God's plan for Israel itself, not the church replacing them.
@BuenoForMiami People who have thought deeply about God and religion tend to welcome those questions, and in my experience, they're usually the first to admit they don't have all the answers.
I’m trying to understand what you’re getting at. Is this an argument for universal salvation? I tend to read the “all” as referring to the two groups being addressed, namely Israel and gentile believers who have been grafted in. There’s a lot to unpack in chapter 11, including references to “all Israel” and warnings (for Jew and gentile) about being cut off. Honestly, it’s something I haven’t fully worked out, but I err on the side of needing to have faith in Christ to be saved, since that’s a reoccurring theme throughout the New Testament. Would love to hear your interpretation.
@VeridianZero@shethinkslibrty@GenXChristian60 I’ve read the entire letter many times. I agree Romans 11 is an argument for Jewish priority and I agree that Romans 9 is an argument for election.
@VeridianZero@shethinkslibrty@GenXChristian60 Romans 11 is part of the canon nearly every Christian tradition accepts, so that's the text I'm working from. If you're using a different canon, we're probably not going to find common ground on this.