redaktyd

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@IOkpeh @TheVictorOkafor A trained person's advantage "without rules" only becomes more substantial over an untrained person lol

[Jonathan Pageau @PageauJonathan]

Following a bit of the Protestant polemics against Orthodoxy recently, and I realize just how difficult it is to communicate the mind of the Church across these lines.

A simple example is seeing people confused about whether someone who is not baptised and participating in Orthodox communion can be "saved". Protestant are noticing that there are different answers in their estimation, and so are confused about them. The confusion comes from the belief that being "saved" or not is about "where you go after you die", when for the Orthodox "saved" means being made whole, being healed, being restored to the original purpose God had for us.

For this reason, when Protestants see declarations of how communion in the body of Christ is the only way to salvation, they immediately think this is a declaration that all the non-Orthodox are going to hell after they die. When Protestants then hear the very same person who just told them that salvation is in full participation to the body of Christ go on to intimate we have nothing to say about the eschatological finality of any specific soul, it is like a short circuit that many Protestants cannot compute. This is what I could see when @OrthodoxEthos and @Acts17David were discussing and it is what I have seen in @gavinortlund's videos.

In a similar vein, when a Protestant says he has the "assurance of his own personal salvation", this is confusing to the Orthodox. Orthodox also obviously have assurance of salvation, that assurance is Christ. He shows us what it means to be made whole and makes us participate in that wholeness. But how can I say that I am "saved" if I see that I am still a wretch, still prideful and arrogant and sinful? So the Orthodox, knowing they are are still sinning, though also knowing Christ has made them grow in the virtues will say something like: "I know that I am being saved." That is I can see that I am being healed, being made whole, being reformed to the resemblence of God. But again, this completely confuses the Protestant who just wants to know what will happen when you die. What side of the fence will you end up on?

I am not sure how to get accross these lines, and I feel that unless we can, we will perpetually be talking past each other.

[CleavetoAntiquity @C2Antiquity]

@Brandon81Hansen @PageauJonathan Well that’s a shame because that quote is not actually Luther; it’s the Freemason Albert Pike, from his book Morals and Dogma

Goes to show how much enlightenment philosophy and (later) freemasonry influenced modern Protestantism

[Jonathan Pageau @PageauJonathan]

Basically, you are arguing against no one and making a lot of noise for word games.

You are criticizing people for saying the pagan gods of the Old Testament exist and then switching the argument by asking those hold this view to provide a place in the Bible which declares that the gods of the nations are equal to the uncreated God. No one who, following Heiser, speaks of the divine council or the gods of the nations does so as being equal to the uncreated Trinity.

So if I quote Deuteronomy 10:7: "For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords" what will you say? I can already answer. You will say: "See, the gods are not like God".

But this is Heiser's belief as well as the belief of anyone who holds similar opinions.

Ultimately you are embarassing yourself and discrediting your capacity for thought.

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@Cflakes82 @cosmiccrucifix @bannedpastor The incense altar stood before the veil, which had images of Cherubim woven into it. Smoke passed through the veil, delivered to God's footstool (the Ark) by Cherubim

"the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel" Rev. 8:4

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@Cflakes82 @cosmiccrucifix @bannedpastor Man is an icon of God

The Tabernacle/Temple is patterned after the Heavenly Temple (the body of Christ) making it an image of God

There are images of the Cherubim in the Tabernacle/Temple

The incense smoke is an image of our prayers, delivered by those Cherubim to God Himself

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@bojangle505 @Prettyguhk444 @thegirdlengr I didn't say that it was "rare", I said it was the "rarest" at 10-15% of FGM cases

Excellent article by @briandavidearp from 2014 examining pre-conceived notions about genital cutting: https://t.co/I9u2RwE68z

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@Prettyguhk444 @thegirdlengr Infibulation is the most extreme and rarest form of female circumcision. Most FGM is actually milder than the standard form of MGM

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@Dagnum_PI Looks like it's a different company

[pavkin @pavkin]

cats holding the nastiest angle on me

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@blessedmikko @IFFFMEISTER @Falango1993 The resurrection is what restores (ontologically, not legally) our nature from death. We're baptized into Christ's body and His resurrection, and saved from death on His account. We can express many elements of the atonement using penal language but it ≠ PSA

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@blessedmikko @IFFFMEISTER @Falango1993 God can forgive the guilt before the resurrection, but He can't "forgive the penalty" (to use penal language) of sin, which is death, until the resurrection because it's not just a legal penalty. It's an ontological effect inherited from Adam that infects our nature

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@blessedmikko @IFFFMEISTER @Falango1993 In defense, not only do you have no basis for the distinction (making it arbitrary), but I don't believe you demonstrated inherited guilt at all

Further, the idea of inherited guilt actually contradicts prior revelation about God's justice, eg Ezekiel 18:19-20 (making it unjust)

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@blessedmikko @IFFFMEISTER @Falango1993 The evidence I present for my claim is that God forgives the guilt of sin before the cross, therefore guilt can't be what is satisfied on the cross

To refute, you distinguish the guilt of personal sin being forgiven before the cross, and the guilt of original sin forgiven after

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@blessedmikko @IFFFMEISTER @Falango1993 So, Christ can only forgive personal sins before the cross but not original sin?

"Son, your sins are forgiven you,"
...
"except the one you didn't personally commit!"

Seems pretty arbitrary to say God can't do it, and dareisay... unjust if you say he won't do it

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@blessedmikko @IFFFMEISTER @Falango1993 Wait, the ontological curse of original sin or the legal guilt of original sin? If it's the former, then I'd agree on the basis that it's Christ defeating the power of death over our human nature (ontological sin). If it's the latter, I reject the premise that guilt is inherited

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@blessedmikko @IFFFMEISTER @Falango1993 And yet, it's not until after the resurrection that the righteous souls are saved from Death (Hades). So:

1. Sin can be forgiven before the cross
2. Righteous souls aren't saved until after the cross

It's starting to sound like the legal status isn't what atones

[redaktyd @redaktyd]

@blessedmikko @IFFFMEISTER @Falango1993 And yet... Christ forgave sin before His death