The real problem is there’s always another layer to peel back haha. At some point, it comes down to whatever feels in line with your understanding of the Father through your relationship with Him and His word.
And for me… as I raise my own children, guide them through their mistakes and trials and joys, I begin to understand at a level I never expected why the Father would want to raise faithful sons and daughters and give them everything.
@davidtaylor0390 The issue is really one of omnipotence.
If God is all powerful / all knowing, why not create all to “fall in line”?
Saying simply that “it brings about ultimate goodness / glory” when God defines goodness feels unsatisfactory bc it feels arbitrary.
But… it’s heretical to suggest that God and law could both be eternal, and that God is bound by law…
Certainly resolves questions like this well:
God’s desire for us to inherit His kingdom requires us to pass through this life with evil, sorrow, sin, and suffering according to divine eternal law that cannot be bent.
If there was any other better way, it would imply that God is not love.
@davidtaylor0390 The issue is really one of omnipotence.
If God is all powerful / all knowing, why not create all to “fall in line”?
Saying simply that “it brings about ultimate goodness / glory” when God defines goodness feels unsatisfactory bc it feels arbitrary.
Background automations can burn a lot of tokens.
Simple example:
1. Bug reported
2. Agent takes report, creates validation video of the thing failing with replication conditions
Simple enough, but then you add hundreds of tickets being reported, and you either need to parallelize or have a triage agent linking related issues together to keep it more focused.
The more layers you add, the more complex the orchestration, the more “supervisor” tokens you start burning, and overall token spend jumps significantly.
@AnsweringRCs Ie in place of one in substance, most passages that “clearly show” the trinity could be interpreted merely as one in will while separate in substance.
In this, Christ the Son is set apart and crucial in status and glory, but is ultimately is subservient to God the Father.
@AnsweringRCs To be fair, the doctrine of the trinity is not the only interpretation of God from the Bible.
There was major conflict over resolved later in the Nicene council - but that’s from the same orthodox / catholic branch that Protestants reject.
I take that back - we might have an example available now.
People want their meat and like the idea of it being done humane, but they want the butcher and farms as far from them as possible.
Present it as far from the process as possible, while leaning as hard into the process as you can 😂
@RyanCarniato I think this is going to just get harder down the line…
We want the human connection.
And…
We want the issue closed now.
I frankly don’t think there’s a hard and fast rule that gets this right for everyone.
1. True. Until the number 1 was conceptualized by us humans, there were still many instances of “one”. Despite the number not being conceived / discovered by humanity however, that “one-ness” and associated properties we are aware of now still held. The real question is whether these “abstract constructs” that appear to define our reality are independent of conceptualization. Do they stem from God, are they universal constraints that even God necessarily operates within, are they manifestations of His nature, or something else altogether? Further, there may be levels to that - ie, some “laws” / “abstractions” live solely within this universe while others (ie, must X = X always?) truly span all of reality(realities?).
2. Platonism definitely impacted language and understanding of divinity of early Christianity. Just as with any logical / scientific pursuit, it’s crucial to tease out what is truth (actual reality as laid out by God) and supposition.
3. Sure. It could also be external and co-eternal with God having a perfect understanding of it. We either need to rely on tradition or open heavens to discern and understand God’s nature.
What I do believe is logic alone will never be enough. “My thoughts are not your thoughts.”
Really there are 2 rules:
1. Capital letter one side, number on the other
2. If A then 3.
The phrasing merely implies 1 is true without explicitly stating it as an axiom. I’d be curious to know how we came to that conclusion however without a knowledge of rule 2.
If it’s not a given, you’d need to turn over all cards.
Otherwise, A and 7.
@PopeLeoXIIIStan @ATIF_Podcast Note how this then ties to our understanding of the Son and the Father.
They are one - not of substance. Of will.
And they command us to be one with them.
It’s different, but it’s certainly not incoherent 🙂
1. Does theosis automatically imply polytheism?
2. If you are perfectly aligned with God’s will and carry out an action, does that make you worthy of worship and replace God? Or are you simply adding to the glory of God and it’s counted for God?
3. Same as 2, but you raise a child to be perfectly in line with the same will and they carry out an action. Does it count for them, for you, or for God?
In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, my understanding of the answers to the above are:
1. No. Big G God is not the same as little g god.
2. No. You do not compete for glory - it all goes and flows through to God.
3. No. You do not compete for glory - it all goes and flows through to God.
So… are we polytheists?
In my understanding - no. We just have an ever expanding family carrying out more of God’s work and bringing Him more glory.