MarThrone

[Ben Goertzel @bengoertzel]

I wanted to share a few thoughts on the OpenAI GPT4o1 model ... as a lot of people are talking about it in understandably glowing terms !!

I've used o1 fairly extensively... it's a significant and exciting step forward but there are also clear limitations

For example --

It's pretty good at programming in languages for which there are numerous examples on the Internet (or numerous examples for quite similar languages). It does very poorly at our MeTTa language, even after lots of creative attempts to teach it...

It's pretty good at dealing with math theorems and proofs in domains of math for which there are a lot of published papers in its corpus. It's piss-poor at things like paraconsistent logic for which the existing literature is smaller and sparser.

Basically, to oversimplify a bit, it's got "chain of thought" down to a science, answering questions via synthesizing numerous chains of thought behind the scenes, and then presenting only a summary approximation of its actual chains of thought to the user...

However it doesn't represent a fundamental leap beyond prior LLMs, in the sense that it is still clearly recombining its training data on a fairly surface level...

If this were to be the apex of AI, we would have a serious societal issue due to such models, in that they render it SOOO MUCH EASIER to do conformist stuff that copies what other people are doing. I mean, it takes a lot of persistence and stubbornness to bother creating a weird new programming language when it means you will not have LLM programming assistance for a significant while... or to invent an out-there new branch of math when it will mean going without math theorem-proving assistance. Similarly in music, pioneering a new genre of music will seem even less appealing to most composers when it means their AI music assistants becoming so lame....

However, I think that before this sort of "AI driven accentuated pressure for conformity" becomes a major factor, we will replace LLMs with different sorts of AGI architecture in which LLMs play only a supporting role. Obviously that is what we're after with OpenCog Hyperon, which combines LLMs with logical reasoning, evolutionary algorithms and other methods. within an autonomous agency based architecture ... and which is designed from the get-go for decentralized implementation, atop e.g. SNet +. Nunet + HyperCycle...

OpenAI does have a bit of a lead now in terms of practical LLM capabilities, with o1 ... although I'd note DeepMind's neural models are better at some other things like planning and strategy... .however I definitely predict OSS LLMs will catch up with o1 within a year or so at most... everyone can see now basically how to systematize chain of thought the way OpenAI has done, it will just take some time and resources for others to do the experimentation and tuning...

We may be 1-2 or even 3 yrs from neural-symbolic-evolutionary models like Hyperon super-emphatically kicking the cognitive butt of o1's closed and open source successors, but we're not 5-10 years off... Things are moving fast in AI these days....

[vittorio @IterIntellectus]

Ok guys, gather around.
As I feel obliged by the state of matters, I will give you my very dumb take on the current thing:

As I see it now, this is war.
Ideological, philosophical, memetic.

It’s not a war for land, power, or money (even though these are at stake in the short term).
It’s a war of ideas and principles, a war that will define the future of our civilization (I am dead serious on this), a war for the cultural zeitgeist.

On one side, we have e/acc and Techno-Optimism that embrace technological advancement and social change as forces for progress.
On the other side is Effective Altruism (EA), decels, wordcels, extintionists, which offer a different perspective focused on what they claim is evidence-based solutions to pressing issues.

At the core of e/acc is a respect for the laws of physics and a belief that life and intelligence emerge in systems that capture and utilize energy and information effectively.
Complementing this, Techno-Optimism sees technology as the engine of human progress and solutions to our greatest problems.

In contrast, EA emphasizes “rational” analytical methods to determine the most effective ways to help humanity, often critiqued as overly bureaucratic and missing the unpredictable nature of innovation.

E/acc believes that accelerating technological and social changes can substantially improve the human condition. While acknowledging potential risks, it views acceleration as largely positive - with the right directionality, society can harness technology strategically to navigate toward greater prosperity.
Techno-Optimism offers hope against modern pessimism, arguing that, guided by ethics, technology can resolve many challenges of our times. Diverging from dystopian visions, it provides a constructive outlook empowering innovation and progress.

EA, instead, tries to adopt a measured stance, using evidence and reasoning to find the most impactful interventions. Its proponents focus on quantifiable outcomes, prioritizing causes based on projected benefits. While appreciating technology, EA emphasizes current solutions over speculative possibilities.

E/acc and Techno-Optimism believe technology is transformative and a force for good and see human flourishing as a consequence of technological advances. They see how every progress of our civilization came from new technologies and knowledge.

EA, instead, thinks that humans are too stupid for technology and that only very few of the elite members among their ranks have the required skills to handle them.
You, stupid human, cannot wield the power that the gods of rationality bestowed upon them for the creation of the blog of the enlightened.
Even better. Power should be centralized and controlled only by corporations they can control. But, of course, this is only for the good of humanity, not a power grab. Sure.
On top of that, they argue that many of our current issues are caused by technology, and we would be better off without it.
Sure, OK, then go back to treating cancer with prayers and leeches, you Luddite.

What I see as the starkest difference between the two ideologies is the role that the individual plays in these two conflicting views.
This difference, I reckon, is the very same difference between democracy or republic and top-down tyranny.

On one side, e/acc sees the role of the individual as paramount:
“go build, do work, what have you done today anon? What are you building today?”.

You, an individual, a human being, are responsible for yourself. No one is coming to save you, so go out in the world, build good things, useful things, things that people like and use.
Hence, so many founders are e/acc. They know how hard this is but also how rewarding and a force for good it is. It’s harder but more fulfilling. It takes work, sweat, and struggle, but you get meaning and purpose in return.

And the centrality of anon accounts is quite telling for me.

It’s not WHO you are but WHAT you do. It’s a proof-of-work membership. It’s a meritocracy. It’s asking everyone to take responsibility and be proactive in climbing the Kardashev scale and contributing to bringing forth the utopian future we all dream of.

Conversely, EA sees as the driving factor attributing validity and respect to an endeavor the WHO is taking part in.
Where did you study, who do you know, who are your friends.

It also sees its members as morally and intellectually superior to everyone else just because, you know, they are smart and you are not.

Take what Tristan said just a couple of days ago: “Even if AGI could save my mother’s life, but there was the risk of humanity’s extinction, I wouldn’t do it” (Paraphrased, but you get the point)
Now, it would be very honorable of you if that were the case. But you still have all the burden of proof that p(doom) >0, and you haven’t produced any meaningful theory of the extinction risk of AGI. Remember the hypothesis falsifiability?
So, your take is not altruistic or smart. It’s just psychopathic.

EA sees the general public as too stupid even to think. THEY need to have control. THEY need to be allowed to make the final decision. THEY are the ones allowed to distribute the most important resource and generator of infinities: knowledge.
Why? Because they are Less Wrong than you.
(Yes, don’t you know that they are better than you? They are so smart and rational that they can rationalize abortion up to when a child is ~4 years old. You know, because of qualia.
Yeah, sorry, I don’t fuck with that, you dumb fedora.)

I mean, they just need to finally say “we hate humans” out loud; that’s the only reasonable next step at this point.

So, whether you like it or not, we are at war.

e/acc and Techno-optimists vs EA and decels.

Humanists vs extinctionists
Progress vs regress
Capitalism vs Communism
Decentralization vs centralization
People vs Tyrants
Optimism vs pessimism

Which way, anon?

Choose your side carefully.
The future of humanity is at stake.

[Elon Musk @elonmusk]

As promised

[Joscha Bach @Plinz]

Some Decepticons are committed to defending their current market positions, others argue the contradiction that AGI can never work and that it is dangerous to develop it. The fight against making AI available to humanity is currently creating almost as many jobs as AI itself.

[Joscha Bach @Plinz]

The reason why Eliezer did not sign the FLI letter is because a 6 month moratorium does not go far enough for him; he thinks AI datacenters need to be bombed. Seriously. https://t.co/v84rl0jmnU

[MarThrone @Yimagar2]

@bengoertzel what's your opinion on this?

[Joscha Bach @Plinz]

The reason why Eliezer did not sign the FLI letter is because a 6 month moratorium does not go far enough for him; he thinks AI datacenters need to be bombed. Seriously. https://t.co/v84rl0jmnU

[Ben Goertzel @bengoertzel]

Frax and Dai other algo stablecoins are also suffering a bit now, as they held reserves in USDC (naturally because they need to peg to fiat). The only path to real stability is to unpeg from the fucked-up fiat system entirely. @CogitoProtocol

[Sam Altman @sama]

Planning for AGI and beyond: https://t.co/7PBlNj9KAD

[Joscha Bach @Plinz]

The Singularity is not a faith or a dogma. It is the realization of a shockingly disruptive almost fully unavoidable near certainty: the impending emergence of an unprecedentedly lucid planetary consciousness across all computational substrates.

[John Carmack @ID_AA_Carmack]

A single H100 SXM GPU is rated at 2,000 TFLOPS FP16. The human brain has ~100T synapses, so that is 20 flops/synapse. Those are 50% sparse MADs, and memory doesn’t keep up, but GPUs are clearly edging into brain level processing.

[Anders Sandberg @anderssandberg]

This infinite implementation of Game of Life in Game of Life is beautiful. https://t.co/XBazgBEhga

[Big Time @playbigtime]

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[Big Time @playbigtime]

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[szolour @szolour]

@Yimagar2 @tar_aron haha

[MarThrone @Yimagar2]

@szolour @rekt_wolf @PS_Labs @StargazeZone @tar_aron Amazing

[unchain.fund (🇺🇦, 🇺🇦) @Unchainfund]

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1/10

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[MarThrone @Yimagar2]

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