ieva

i believe in the majesty of true love!

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@VColopatri37759 @shaggysurvives @tautologer @xsphi @MaskedTorah i'm not trying to convince you of anything

[cookie🍪 @cookiecarver]

girl i went out with recently told me she goes on dates with guys she doesn't like for "anthropological study". she said she went out with a cowboy once just to see what he was like

we met at a friend's birthday picnic. she was wearing a floral green dress. i don't like chatting in groups much so we didn't talk a lot. we walked to the tube with the others after. when the sun set the picnic ended so it was getting darker and darker as we walked

she mentioned she was moving soon. it was coincidentally very close to where i live. i said we should get coffee sometime. i meant it. she agreed. i gave her my phone number but didn't actually get hers. i didn't hear from her for a while

a few weeks later i got an unexpected message from an unknown number. it was a screenshot of my face on a dating app. i was a bit creeped out at first but settled down when i realised it was her

she first asked me if i wanted to do a hackathon together. from what little i knew of her, she'd studied law and was a workaholic, i said no. hackathons aren't my thing and it seemed like a lot of work

after i declined i didn't hear from her for a few days but then she asked me last minute if i wanted to grab dinner. she was feeling sichuan food, intestines to be exact. i told her i knew a place that was very authentic but it was an hour away

"hell no" she said. "there's one 5 minutes from my place"

i knew the only reason she was texting me was because i was available and lived walking distance from her place and i knew the only reason i was going was because i'd eaten too many meals alone lately

she told me to give her an hour to decide. she was feeling a bit sick and might pull out last minute. i wasn't sure if she was telling the truth but 45 minutes into the hour i started walking. i was wearing my nice new denim jacket and i'd waxed my hair. i had a feeling she'd be fine and wouldn't stand me up. i got there first and she arrived a few minutes after

pig intestines were on the menu as she knew they would be. she asked what else we should get. i suggested some vegetables to balance the meal. she suggested something complicated that she couldn't cook at home easily. she ordered in flawless chinese. i stayed silent wondering if i could have ordered in my broken chinese

we talked about london as we waited, how long we'd been here, which parts we liked. we were feeling each other out. i took a lot of small sips of water. she had beautiful brown eyes that kept gazing at me like i was food

the real food arrived not long after. we didn't talk much as we ate. i said it was nice, spicy but not too spicy. she said it was oily and she'd had better. it had a satisfying crunch but it was too spicy for me. i'd never order it myself but i enjoyed it with her. i topped up her water when it was half full and she said thank you every time

as the food slowly disappeared she asked me if there was anything i wanted to ask her. she flashed her teeth. i smiled and looked away. there was a sign for karaoke on the wall. i asked her if she liked karaoke. she said it was okay. she preferred listening to others sing

the bill came and we both knew it would be split. my card declined twice. i had cash too but used my backup card instead since i didn't want to complicate things. we left with her leading the way

outside the restaurant she told me i walk like a guy who's done a lot of tai chi. it was the nicest thing she said to me all night

neither of us wanted to go home yet. there was a big shopping centre next to us so we walked around outside. most of the shops were closed, shutters down, cleaners cleaning. there were still a decent amount of people out, eating in restaurants, drinking in bars

we chatted about her job as a lawyer being ai proof, about my past tech job, about how ironic it was that ai was going to take over so many tech jobs. polite conversation for polite people

we ended up in an arcade. she said she passed it every day on her way to work and always wanted to go in but never had time. we were only going in to look but i had a feeling we were going to end up playing something

i tried hard to remember which ones caught her eye so we could go back to them. at the end of the arcade there were token machines so i suggested we get some

the only game we ended up playing was a horse riding game. the horses were well painted, the seats were sturdy, and there were flashing neon lights on the front and sides. we wanted to play multiplayer since there were two horses side by side but it didn't work out so we took turns: me first and then her. we both kinda sucked. she had a ponytail that matched the horse's tail and she gripped the reins hard as it vibrated. i got a video of her riding the horse. she looked very pleased

the arcade was closing so we got ice cream at a burger place. she wanted one with bacon in it but the guy at the counter said they didn't do that anymore

"we can't have anything nice these days because of woke"

we shared a small ice cream while she ranted about rationalism. she said she just couldn't read that many blog posts. i tried to eat less and save her some but she insisted i eat more of it. she wanted to watch her figure

it was getting late so we walked to near where she lived. there were benches nearby so we sat. it was getting chillier and a fox wandered past

you'd think we'd run out of things to say but we never did. she told me, "conversation is easy. you just say stuff." i agreed. we talked about things we'd done recently. i mentioned i went to a dance class. she asked me to show her what i learned so we started dancing. she'd never danced before and i had just one lesson under my belt so it was very mechanical. there was no music to dance to. she was hard to lead. or i was a bad leader

after our little dance, i showed her some tai chi which she found amusing

"why is a young guy like you doing tai chi?"

"preparing for the future"

i wanted to show her how sturdy tai chi can make you but i didn't want to push her onto the pavement so she suggested we go back to her place. we were right outside. i asked her if her housemates were around and she said all but one should be away. it was a very modern flat. everything looked new

we sat on the sofa next to each other. we started talking about what it's like to date in a big city. she'd lived here for almost a decade. she showed me her hinge profile. she had hundreds of matches. she complained about how all the good boys must be locked behind a paywall. she didn't want to pay

her profile was alright but nothing special. i thought i could have picked out better photos for her. none of them looked like her on the horse. she pointed at a photo of her with a guy and said it was her best friend back home

"at one point my friends and family thought we were meant for each other"

it was almost like we were at confession and i was the priest. this is what i imagine confession is like

she told me she went on dates with guys she didn't even like. "anthropological study," she called it. one time there was a cowboy. she went out with him just to see what he was like. he had the hat and the boots and the ranch and all. she showed me pictures of him on her dating app, at the rodeo, riding a horse, being american. he had big bright white teeth which he flashed in every photo. she scrolled through them proudly as if he was a stamp she'd collected

she said for her bachelorette party she wanted a cowboy theme, at a ranch, with everyone dressed as cowboys. she wasn't joking. i thought it was funny that one cowboy had left such a mark on her

then i realised i was the cowboy this time

i excused myself to go to the bathroom. it was 3am. i wondered what i should do. i could go home but i'd passed the stage where i was tired and wanted to sleep. my sleep schedule was already ruined so it didn't matter when i slept now. the bathroom was clean but not too clean. there were products scattered everywhere. it was definitely an all girls bathroom. i looked at myself in the mirror for a while. my eyes were red

i came out and we chatted some more. at this stage it was mostly her talking and me listening and making comments here and there. i was ok with it. she was ok with it. it was an ideal situation. she was a natural born talker and i was a natural born listener so we had a good thing going on

we talked about dating again. she was a lawyer so maybe it made sense that she found relationship contracts romantic. forget chocolates or flowers. she wanted a contract

"hey maybe we could make a—" she cut herself off. or maybe i interrupted her. i can't remember

she asked me "is there something wrong with me?"

she loved going on first dates and never talking to the guy again. something about being entertained by a different guy each time was thrilling. she was living different lives. she'd never gotten attached to anyone, and if she had, it ended very soon. she'd never been in a long relationship. she asked me what it was like. i was the expert apparently. i tried to reassure her there was nothing wrong with her

it was 6am. we'd talked all night. she offered for me to stay over. i declined the spare mattress and the sofa and her lovely company. i wanted to sleep in my own bed that night

i didn't take the tube. it took a while to get home. it got lighter and lighter as i walked. the birds were already up. it was a good night

the next day i sent her the video of her riding the horse. no caption or anything. i just wanted her to have it too

the day after i sent her one last message not expecting a reply. i never heard from her again

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@goblinodds @Mithrandir48 @violetvariant oh this doesn't, like, hit very hard for me as an argument, but i'm not american, which might be why lol

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@VColopatri37759 @shaggysurvives @tautologer @xsphi @MaskedTorah idk what to say, this just seems to be on avg true in my experience of flirting with men vs women

(i would not love to have women be horny about me in a serious setting, either, though. from what i've heard, it also really sucks)

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@goblinodds @Mithrandir48 @violetvariant i could say "women shouldn't vote because they're keeping me from my libertarian utopia with their equality demands", and it'd be true, but also a pretty silly thing to say, because no word of god deemed that liberty>equality. that's just what i think

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@goblinodds @Mithrandir48 @violetvariant europe is a big example here i think. lib women love europe, because slower economic development is just a trade-off they're willing to take to a greater extent. nothing inherently wrong with that, it's fine

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@icefire99 @DAFmed666 @radfemsiren i don't think we should settle for merely net positive. i think we can & should strive to build the best possible society

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@Mithrandir48 @goblinodds @violetvariant of course society would be better without women voting, if you define 'better' as more aligned with male values. the reason there are political differences at all *is* because people differ on what it would mean for society to be better!

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@Mithrandir48 @goblinodds @violetvariant i mean it does seem silly to say "society would be better off if women didn't vote, because the focus would be on [things men value on avg] and not [things women value]". obviousy this is trivially true, if you align with the male priorities, and trivially untrue if not?

[ChiTown Kenny @kenthecowboy_]

@cairoasmith Nothing human is alien to me

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@parasociality @paige_eden i think sexuality is an aspect of human identity that's uniquely sensitive to context wrt being forced vs. choosing freely

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@CartoonsHateHer guy who calls office jobs 'jew daycare for women' and means it as a compliment

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@lumirth @chaotictransfem old macdonald had a farm (openai o)

[Frances Lorenz @frances__lorenz]

I will get to my main point by 3). To set context: 1) it is very difficult to be heard within some EA, rationalist, & AI safety spaces when you discuss sexism, harm, and harassment. You have to use specific framings and language. You have to be "precise." You cannot misstep.

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@kenthecowboy_ the majesty of true love isn't really that easily quantifiable

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@kenthecowboy_ that's obviously not infinitely true, though? like, i could set standards that are specific enough to filter out literally everyone on earth & it's also fairly easy to arbitrarily filter out someone who, if you were to meet them, you'd end up falling in love with

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@kenthecowboy_ yupp, as long as you understand the trade-offs you're making, which is why it's good to make them clear

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@kenthecowboy_ yeah, i think this is true & it's also true that a lot of men have the sincere desire to do things that appeal to women (which is cute & admirable), so whenever they have a skewed view of what that entails, it's good to be like "hey guys actually this sucks for a bunch of us"

[ieva @ageofabstaining]

@kenthecowboy_ lol tbf slutcloud polyam norms might make this the one community where that could plausibly happen