John Much

Mostly angry shouting matches about global warming.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@StevenHerbert @polNewsRevenge Dogs?

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@jamesb_bkk @Tokyo_Tom @VoluntaryOnly @wlbeeton @FatCassandra @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @craigthomler @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @PeteG1001 @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @climatecancel @FossilBeBare @bobathon Did you know that the thing blew up because the EPA made them use a more environmentally friendly flame-resistant material?

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@wlbeeton @NoelTurner194 @jamesb_bkk @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @craigthomler @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @PeteG1001 @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @Tokyo_Tom @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @climatecancel @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol That is incidental. I'd trust the doctor if his science wasn't peer-reviewed, his knowledge had been confirmed by non-scientists and his school wasn't a government funded monopoly.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@craigthomler @Tokyo_Tom @wlbeeton @climatecancel @jamesb_bkk @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol Facts have to be shown to be facts, otherwise they are not facts. The default is disbelief.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@craigthomler @Tokyo_Tom @wlbeeton @climatecancel @jamesb_bkk @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol To answer; I don't think AGW research portrays reality (=is science). Abstractions like "average global temperature" don't exist. Computer models are arbitrary. The core equations are not comprehensible by anyone except the people who invented them, and quite likely not accurate.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@Tokyo_Tom @craigthomler @wlbeeton @climatecancel @jamesb_bkk @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol Thanks for the courteous debate.
I can only be "afraid" of "a fact" if you show it to be "a fact". If not, this just circularly assumes something you haven't shown to be true.
To respond: I'm not "equating" AGW and theism. When only concerned with epistemology, AGW *is* theism.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@Tokyo_Tom @AtomsksSanakan @wlbeeton @climatecancel @jamesb_bkk @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @craigthomler @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol You agree that who funds and directs the research matters. The results of state-funded and state-directed research just so happen to have very convenient results for states. (When do they ever agree on anything?) Yet this doesn't skew the results and they are very reliable?

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@GillesnFio @jamesb_bkk @AtomsksSanakan @craigthomler @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @Tokyo_Tom @wlbeeton @climatecancel @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson I think you bought into the lefts narrative that their ideas are on the rise. You just aren't as happy about it as they are.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@Tokyo_Tom @craigthomler @wlbeeton @climatecancel @jamesb_bkk @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol Exactly. The glitch behind warmism is to assume warmist heuristics to be reality, then proceed to conclude that reality confirms warmist heuristics. They are so oblivious that their heuristics are not reality, that they skip defending them.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@Tokyo_Tom @craigthomler @wlbeeton @climatecancel @jamesb_bkk @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol Your side has a positive theory and has to account for the epistemological questions of how it can be known to be true and how it can be ethical to have a right to make policy based on it. They do not answer these questions, but instead assume them out of the world via semantics.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@Tokyo_Tom @craigthomler @wlbeeton @climatecancel @jamesb_bkk @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol "I take it as fact"

Exactly. In the same way that a Christian would consider the existence of God not merely his opinion.
AGW is only true if your heuristics *are* fact, not if they are *taken as fact by you*. You need to show them to be objective fact, or disagreement is valid.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@GillesnFio @jamesb_bkk @AtomsksSanakan @craigthomler @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @Tokyo_Tom @wlbeeton @climatecancel @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson Science didn't really exist 300-ish years ago. And until recently few people were rigorous about it. Science is not being practiced perfectly yet. But it is clearly on the rise.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@craigthomler @Tokyo_Tom @wlbeeton @climatecancel @jamesb_bkk @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol What science? You haven't shown that AGW is science. You circularly assume it.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@craigthomler @wlbeeton @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @jamesb_bkk @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @PeteG1001 @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @Tokyo_Tom @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @climatecancel @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol "I went to the raw data"

If that is true, you are potentially one of maybe 1000 people in the world who get to believe in AGW. For everyone else, consensus is the cause of the evidence, and then "denial" of a positive theory is the scientific assumption.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@wlbeeton @NoelTurner194 @craigthomler @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @jamesb_bkk @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @PeteG1001 @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @Tokyo_Tom @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @climatecancel @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol I'm not disputing that AGW is conformed the scientistic establishment. I'm disputing that this is a valid reason for you to believe in it. It is a belief *for you*. Should the existence of a consensus be a valid reason for belief in something?

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@Tokyo_Tom @craigthomler @wlbeeton @climatecancel @jamesb_bkk @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol I am not trying to show that your heuristics are wrong. I don't have to. I am trying to show that your heuristics are subjective. That's all I need to refute that AGW is true.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@craigthomler @JayforScience @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @GillesnFio @Tokyo_Tom @wlbeeton @climatecancel @jamesb_bkk @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson Either you agree that appeal to authority is a fallacy, then it is generally agreed, or you disagree, then you are wrong.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@craigthomler @Tokyo_Tom @wlbeeton @climatecancel @jamesb_bkk @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol Warmists always defend "science" as a proxy for having to defend their belief that AGW is science.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@GillesnFio @jamesb_bkk @AtomsksSanakan @craigthomler @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @Tokyo_Tom @wlbeeton @climatecancel @PeteG1001 @NoelTurner194 @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson Nah. Groupthink was way more irrational and entrenched 100 years ago. What we're seeing are residuals. That groupthink has to reshape itself to portray itself as "science" is in itself a concession. It would not have to change if it was not under pressure.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@Tokyo_Tom @wlbeeton @NoelTurner194 @craigthomler @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @jamesb_bkk @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @PeteG1001 @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @climatecancel @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol I suggest that values and preferences dictate people's policy and risk management decisions. But your side elevated it's subjective values and preferences to the status of objective truth to imply that others need to agree with your policy and risk management decisions.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@Tokyo_Tom @Gladfly1 @jamesb_bkk @GillesnFio @PeteG1001 @wlbeeton @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @craigthomler @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @SalvajeUnitario @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @climatecancel @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol Probably right, but I think we're ignoring some effects here. How do we know how much greening there will be? Energy abundance in 2100 might suck so much carbon out of the atmosphere to turn the sahara into tropical resorts, that we'll run out of it.

[John Much @johnmuch14]

@craigthomler @wlbeeton @NoelTurner194 @AtomsksSanakan @JohnnySumatra @VoluntaryOnly @Vivarn8 @jamesb_bkk @SalvajeUnitario @GillesnFio @PeteG1001 @ClimatePoet @Scipiodelmundo @ILuvCO2 @1_TMF_ @EthonRaptor @climatefrauds @markc01Redux @ubikkgoat @corchem @Mark_Fraser_ @FriendsOScience @Commodity52now @MightyApollo @KevinEdge2 @donnoble63 @Over400ppm @Tokyo_Tom @4TimesAYear @brandonrgates @usanorthcoast @geoffmprice @drwaheeduddin @MarkOkanagan @MonkeyMyBack @Gladfly1 @DominiqueRabeuf @mr_geologist @miked194765 @montaguethecat @3GHtweets @JuPe_EU @mcwbr @noturbine @rln_nelson @julietyler12 @climatecancel @FossilBeBare @bobathon @d_e_mol You seem sincerely oblivious to the distinction between *you* knowing something and reality or "science" knowing it. Because whenever you are asked why you know that global warming is science, you respond why "science" knows it.