Θωμᾶς

The unjust man then, Thrasymachus, shall be an enemy also to the Gods; and the just man, a friend.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

"If evil thou knowest,
as evil proclaim it,
And make no friendship with foes."
- Hávamál, st. 127 (tr. Bellows)

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

a. If mythic literalism is true, then Gods exist as they are depicted in mythology.
b. There are myths that depict the Gods as rapists.
c. Hence, mythic literalists believe they worship rapists.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

a. The Gods are good.
b. That which is good is not evil.
c. Hence, myths that depict the Gods committing evil are not literal.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@YEGSolon @Aesiric_Media Okay, can you provide proof of this? I'm not denying Plato wrote his own epitaph, I just can't find evidence of this.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

Mythic literalists: The myths occurred as they are written.

Platonists: So, the Gods raped and swindled people?

Mythic literalists: Yes, it's in the myths.

Platonists: So, you worship rapists and swindlers?

Mythic literalists: ....

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@YEGSolon @Aesiric_Media Because if the Gods are perfect, they cannot desire anything. That would imply they are imperfect, because it means they lack something and thus desire it.

In contrast, Plato reinforces worship of the Gods by arguing their perfection.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@YEGSolon @Aesiric_Media No, as I've already referenced, Socrates explicitly states that which is good cannot be the cause of evils (Republic 379a-c)

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@YEGSolon @Aesiric_Media In the context Diogenes Laertius provides, it means "god-like." Plato was not the only man in ancient Greece to be called "god-like," it was quite common for noble men. You would also have to prove Plato wrote it himself.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@YEGSolon @Aesiric_Media Okay, how do the Forms support your argument?

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@YEGSolon @Aesiric_Media How is something just or unjust if justice is "not a thing"?

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@YEGSolon @Aesiric_Media No, the Gods did not create rape. Socrates says in the Republic that they are not the origin of everything, because they cannot be the origin of evil things.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@YEGSolon @Aesiric_Media It is relevant, because the myths depict the Gods as committing rapes, and you are defending literalism. It's literally a yes or no question.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@YEGSolon @Aesiric_Media Nope, the Gods are the ultimate source of justice, which is why they would never rape.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@YEGSolon @Aesiric_Media Do you agree with me that rape is immoral?

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@Aesiric_Media @YEGSolon Which part of the Republic is relevant to his assertions?

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@YEGSolon @Aesiric_Media Those aren't arguments, those are assertions. You have to demonstrate them otherwise no one is inclined to believe you.

On top of that, it's a strawman, Platonists do not make these claims.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@Aesiric_Media @illyriusx Let's apply your logic again: Christians are mythic literalists and so are you. I guess you're the same?

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@brg_third @FolkishWyrdism If I may, Christianity also asks for you to have faith. For what reason, given faith takes primacy over logic, do you have for being Pagan and not Christian?

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@Aesiric_Media @illyriusx Helladius and Ammonius were Neoplatonist philosophers who literally killed Christians. Not advocating that but demonstrating your false equivalency.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@brg_third @FolkishWyrdism It's like asking, "why don't you have faith that 2+2=4?"

When there is a system of reasoning that provides the means to discern what's true, I'm going to use that. Many religions ask for faith, logic provides the means to know which is correct.

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@Aesiric_Media @illyriusx I do worship the Gods, and I don't think any of them commit rape. Do you literally believe the story in which Odin raped Rindr, and worship Him believing this?

[Θωμᾶς @versuscoelum]

@Aesiric_Media @illyriusx The whole purpose of our argument is that the Gods are not rapists. They could never be rapists because imperfection is not in their nature.

The whole purpose of my unanswered question to you was regarding your defense of mythic literalism.