A clarification on the claim regarding Prophet Musa عليه السلام and Pharaoh’s tower, with evidence from the Qur’an and the words of Qadi Abu Bakar Ibn al-Arabi رحمه الله
@umaralathari6 Regarding al-Kashmiri, honestly, I don’t know enough about him to comment on his case. As I told you, I only came to know a bit later that he was Deobandi. I don’t engage in takfir or that kind of stuff casually.
The irony when you realize Shaykh al-Mujassimah ibn Taymiyyah actually used 10 volumes to complex rational theology & Greek philosophy just to justify a single attribute. Please don't tell him that you'll break his heart 💔
My bad for quoting the whole passage!
But In short, Imam al-Taftazani states that mere tajseem or affirming jiha, arising from an interpretation of ambiguous texts, does not necessitate takfir (فلا يوجب التكفير), so long as it doesn’t entail the explicit denial of Allah’s perfection or the belief that He is a physical body like created bodies.
So yes, you can refute someone’s beliefs as tajseem and call them a mujassim in a theological refutation, but that alone does not make takfir of the individual permissible.
The verifying scholars among our companions [the theologians of Ahl al-Sunnah] do not declare anyone from the People of the Qiblah (Ahl al-Qiblah) to be a disbeliever, except by that which contains a flat denial/inkar of what is known of the religion by necessity, such as the temporal creation of the universe, the resurrection of bodies, and [denying] God's knowledge of particulars or by that which necessitates the denial of the Maker, Most High.
Or [they may declare takfir] due to a denial of His perfection, Subhanahu, through an interpretation (ta'wil) that leads to absolute negation and total stripping of attributes (al-nafy wal-ta'til al-mahd), such as the complete denial of all divine attributes.
As for mere resemblance/tashbih, anthropomorphism/tajseem, or asserting a direction/jiha, without the belief that He is a physical body like other physical bodies this does not necessitate excommunication (takfir). This is because it is built upon the interpretation/ta'wil of ambiguous texts/mutashabihat, without any intention to deny the Maker or negate His perfection.
شرح العقائد النسفية~
Imam al-Bayadi, Imam al-Iji, and Imam Ibn Abidin, to name a few. There you go, since you asked for scholars.
And as for takfir, why would I go around declaring people kafir? I’m not some Salafi kiddo who jumps online and starts throwing takfir at everyone. Refuting someone’s theological errors and declaring them outside Islam are two entirely different things.
First Learn the diff before embarrassing yourself over a question you clearly don’t understand.
It's funny how you instantly jump to are you saying they are Muslim? Cuz your whole paradigm revolves around keyboard takfir, avg Salafi mindset hahaha 😂
You're exposing your own absolute ignorance of theology if you think calling someone out for Mujassimah automatically makes them a kafir. There is a massive difference btwn refuting an error and excommunicating someone. Those who attribute a body to Allah out of ignorance or faulty interpretation/ta'wil are considered deviants, Fasiq, mubtadi but blanket takfir is withheld.
Unless someone explicitly says Allah Azzawajal has a physical body made of flesh and blood exactly like a human, classical scholars don't just kick them out of Islam. Their semantic confusion shields them from absolute takfir.
I never made takfir of Ibn Taymiyyah, I just pointed out his errors. Stop bringing your reckless internet-takfiri logic over here
@umaralathari6 The reply I deleted was literally just Anwar Shah’s stance on Ibn Taymiyyah being a Mujassim, nothing more. Then I remembered he’s Deobandi, so why would I even bother quoting him or using his stance as an argument when, he isn’t from the Ahlus Sunnah wal-Jamah
Ibn Taymiyyah discusses the hadith in which Allah says, “I fell ill, but you did not visit Me,” and explains that the ill person was Allah’s servant, not Allah Himself.
The irony is unbelievable. 😂 You accuse Asharis and Maturidis of Tawil when they explain texts concerning Allah’s attributes, yet your own Shaykh insists that the apparent wording of this hadith must not be understood as attributing illness to Allah.
Now, if you believe there is a fundamental diff btwn his explanation and the approach of Asharis nd Maturidis, then explain that difference. Why is contextual explanation acceptable here but automatically condemned when they employ interpretive principles in other texts?
To be clear, I’m not claiming that this passage alone proves that Ibn Taymiyyah employs the exact same technical Tawil as the Ashariss. I’m asking you to establish a consistent principle instead of applying different standards depending on whose interpretation you’re defending.
You can defend your Shaykh’s methodology, but simply labelling Ashari and Maturidi interpretations as Tawil is not an argument. Explain the distinction or admit that the discussion requires more nuance than your accusations suggest.
المصدر: ابن تيمية، درء تعارض العقل والنقل، تحقيق: الدكتور محمد رشاد سالم، جـ ١، صـ ١٥٠.
@umaralathari6@saadalqadri These people have traits of nifaq
Acting Like they wouldn't call Imam Bukhari or Ibn masoud RA a mujjasim for these ahadith
But they know they will be exposed if they do it so they use taqiya and just attack the followers as if these attacks dont target the imams themselves.
@umaralathari6 Anwar Shah was a Deobandi, not our Imam. And I never called Ibn Taymiyyah a kafir. Calling him a Mujassim doesn’t mean making takfir, but Ig that’s too hard for you to understand.
@scribeofmedinah@__Howdiduknow__@refutant@AndaluciMaliki1 The irony when you realize Shaykh al-Mujassimah ibn Taymiyyah actually used 10 volumes of complex rational theology & Greek philosophy just to justify a single attribute. Please don't tell him that, you’ll break his heart. 💔
A clarification on the claim regarding Prophet Musa عليه السلام and Pharaoh’s tower, with evidence from the Qur’an and the words of Qadi Abu Bakar Ibn al-Arabi رحمه الله.
Allah gave the entire creation to Rasulullah ﷺ:
Shaykhul Islam, al-Hafidh as-Subki rahimahuAllah stated regarding Rasulullah ﷺ:
"So, the Prophet is more worthy of the believers than themselves, He ﷺ is not in need of permission from anyone,