why can the china labs build glm-5.2, kimi k3, and many more to come? it is because of the openness. not just the open weights but the whole ecosystem. most of the work done in the china labs is carried by interns. i met brilliant undergrad and graduate interns who deeply understand the model training details, and they are 100x more open to share. that means the talent that knows how to train llms in china is 100x greater in number than the talent in the us, and it is growing
in contrast, the us ai ecosystem is too closed. frontier labs do not hire interns. i know brilliant phd students at stanford, berkeley, and so on. they struggle to get an internship and the compute to train a properly sized model. most of the secret recipes are locked away by a very small group of privileged researchers
it is not about china or the us. it is about open and closed science. the fact is that every average cs student can learn how to train an llm. they just need the opportunity. labs should be more open and hire more interns, like how deepmind and fair did in the pre-llm era
I’ve been asked several times whether Zhilin Yang, the founder of @Kimi_Moonshot was my PhD student. The answer is yes and he is absolutely brilliant.
But I’ve been incredibly fortunate to work with so many outstanding PhD students over the years. So I thought I’d brag a little about them and their career paths (of course there are also many MSc and undergraduate students, sorry if I missed anyone):
Founders / Founding Team Members
Devendra Chaplot @dchaplot PhD, Founding Member Thinking Machines / Mistral
Zhilin Yang PhD, Founder & CEO, Moonshot AI
Jimmy Ba @jimmybajimmyba MSc/PhD, Co-founder xAI
Hubert Tsai PhD, Co-founder Spuree, Apple
Nitish Srivastava @nitishsr PhD, Co-founder Perceptual Machines; Co-founder Vayu Robotics
Charlie Tang PhD, Co-founder Perceptual Machines, DE Shaw.
Professors
Paul Liang @pliang279 PhD, MIT
Ben Eysenbach @ben_eysenbach PhD, Princeton University
Ruosong Wang @RuosongW PhD, Peking University
Bhuwan Dhingra @bhuwandhingra PhD, Duke University
Roger Grosse @RogerGrosse Postdoc, University of Toronto
Alexander Schwing Postdoc, UIUC
Research Scientists
Shuyan Zhou @shuyanzh36, Postdoc, Meta Superintelligence Lab
Tiffany Min @SoYeonTiffMin PhD, Microsoft AI
Murtaza Dalal @mihdalal PhD, Tesla AI
Minji Yoon @MinjiYoon90 , PhD, Microsoft AI
Shrimai Prabhumoye PhD, NVIDIA AI, Mistral
Haitian Sun @sun_haitian PhD, Google DeepMind
Emilio Parisotto PhD, Google DeepMind
Lisa Lee PhD @rl_agent, Google DeepMind
Manzil Zaheer @ManzilZaheer PhD, Google DeepMind
Jamie Kiros PhD, Google Brain, OpenAI
Yuri Burda PhD, OpenAI, Anthropic
Cody Severinski PhD, Amazon
Wow cofounder of @tryramp@eglyman speaks Mandarin!
This seems to be some debate show / contest thing for college students from 2011 that aired on one of the CCTV stations
Awkward moment last month at Vivatech in Paris right after Claude Mythos got banned for foreigners.
I was watching the video this morning. French interviewer asks Alibaba Joe Tsai (paraphrasing, full text of the question/answer in the screenshot):
-"we are disappointed with the US. But how can we trust the Chinese won't do the same to us?"
and Joe answers
-"You can't. But right now you have all the eggs in one basket, and we are offering a second basket so you can spread them"
Silence follows, then half of the people in the audience start clapping, the other half look at the ceiling like "man we are so fkd".
The battle of Europe. The saying goes "in order to convince, appeal to interest not to reason". How do US and China stack?
-The US side represented by its labs and a16z and palantir etc are taking the christian evangelist route "our models have our values, and these are the values that do best for humanity. Others dont. So best for everyone if we run the world on our models." They spice this up with a bit of rapport sales technique calling potential paying customers "our allies" and a bit of FUD "backdoors, spying".
-the China side sales technique is basically giving a "90% as good" product away, and hope to make money from those that decide to still hire them as chefs even though you have the recipe already. To this now the "spread the eggs" argument is added. No talk of "values" in the model, no talk of "backdoors" in others. Missing a bit of charm. "Very cheap, very good, you try you try".
In the meantime, also check the third pic for the state of datacenters in Europe, from a recent MS report.
America must acknowledge that it will share its third century with China, writes Rush Doshi in a guest essay. Register for free to learn why he argues its strategy must be built on two pillars https://t.co/dfiibnPMIy
“In the early 2000s its firms invested in Latin America to secure natural resources; in the 2010s they built lots of infrastructure to help export excess steel. Now China is seeking places where it can dominate in high-tech fields.”
https://t.co/OJQNWxCxdr
The Meituan AI team has a fascinating back story. It didn't come out of nowhere.
In early 2023, soon after ChatGPT launched, one of the cofounders of Meituan, Wang Huiwen, launched his own lab to build "China's OpenAI". He threw in $50 mil of his own money, attracted investments from other Meituan co-founders including CEO Wang Xing, and built a decent team. You can say he started the wave of Chinese AI labs looking to compete with OpenAI, Anthropic, that now includes DeepSeek, Moonshot, Z, etc. The lab was called "Light Year Beyond".
It didn't last long. By June 2023, Wang was suffering from mental health issues, the pressure was too much, and Meituan bailed him out and acquired it.
The acquired team is now known as GN06, focused on AI native applications. It is not the foundation model team that is building Longcat, but the two work together, and will likely do more to feed AI capabilities into Meituan's vast user base and use cases as the model layer matures.
The focus on this Longcat 2.0 will likely all be on whether and on what domestic processors it was trained on. But the team's history is also quite fascinating, certainly did not come from no where.
I’m a founder in SF and recently spent time in China.
A few observations from going back and forth between the two worlds.
Not about geopolitics. Just daily life, consumer products, work culture, and what “modern infrastructure” feels like on the ground.
A thread 🧵
BREAKING: From me. Chinese billionaire and Bannon Associate Guo Wengui sentenced to 30 years for fraud. I have been writing about Guo for 9 years now. But this may be the last story about him I ever write.
Tianhang is finally on twitter
He was formerly a founding team member and head of RL at Qwen, and leads model training here at FRL / shortcut
He will be posting more on twitter now
Probably the most cracked person i've ever met. Excited for you to see his work soon!
NEW ODD LOTS:
@tracyalloway and I talk to Baidu CFO Henry He
We discuss:
- Going up against Waymo in driverless cars
- The company's full-stack strategy, from chips to datacenters to models to applications:
- Former Baidu engineer Dario Amodei
https://t.co/cBXMZbOAoe